AIBU to be at wits end with disabled neighbour?

[Enderwits]

Fully expecting to get flamed but wanted to see what others think.

So as not to drip feed - myself and youngest ds have diagnosed autism. And I worked as a support worker for nearly ten years so do understand both sides and that she can’t really help it. That being said...

I am at my wits end. Our neighbour is a disabled lady who needs 24 hour care, more supervision really as she is fairly mobile and will help hang the washing out etc.

We have always been polite and spoken to her when seeing her out/in the garden etc. Most of the time she is quite friendly.

However her behaviour is deteriorating rapidly. She is now attacking staff, often in the garden (have heard them crying on the phone after being assaulted) and has started to scream and bang loudly on windows/shared walls/cars and shouting ‘fuck off’ far more frequently. As an example, the last two mornings we have been woken up at 4am with this. My youngest ds has autism and is extremely distressed when this happens.

She is also now doing it throughout the day. As you can imagine we don’t really want to have to keep all doors/windows closed for hours in this heat.

She has now started to scream ‘fuck off next door neighbour’ when my children/we are in the garden. We had to leave the paddling pool this morning due to it and my ds has been shaking and upset for the last two hours she won’t stop screaming and banging her windows.

I’m writing this as she is packing the car so we can bugger off for the day.

Over the last few months I’ve tried to just calm the dc with ‘come inside, ‘X’ is just a bit upset’ and do understand that I can’t exactly complain as she can’t really help it.

WIBU to have a chat with the manager when I next see her and just explain how much this is upsetting ds? When I was a support worker a gentleman I worked for ended up in a secure facility after deteriorating in what seems to be the same way (he threw a fire extinguisher at my head and ripped someone’s hair out).

She agrees with me, but DM says I shouldn’t say anything as one day that could be ds (though I think I’d agree if he was doing that then he probably was in the wrong setting).

AIBU?

And (looking at you OP) if someone comes on here and 'flames' you for asking advice about this as you are concerned for your neighbour and your family, the world really has gone mad!

I honestly thought I would get flamed, quite overwhelmed by how helpful everyone has been.

Awful for you OP. There comes a point when Diagnosis makes no Difference to how someone should be treated, and that point is reached the second someone else gets hurt or frightened.

Those talking about sectioning should be ashamed of themselves. People with disabilities need care, not just being shut away in institutions

She could do much better though in a supported living facility, I know staff that work in a lovely one as they also cared for my family member, and they have two or three members of staff on at any one time due to behavioural issues of the people that live there, but they do a lot of activities, shopping, facilitating family visits, they are also experienced in managing violent behaviour. Social services will not put in 2 people at once for someone living alone at home, almost never, in our postcode, so once you need more than one person to deal with any incidents, you do need to look at supported living which might be a lot nicer for this lady who is clearly frightened and disturbed living by herself.

Definitely call adult social service and say it is urgent, you are being harassed and that you yourself and your son are vulnerable. I would also report to local neighbourhood police (if you are not planning on moving, ha ha) as it will add weight to the whole thing.

I can't imagine that recording what you can hear in your own home or garden could every be illegal, especially if you aren't even pointing the lens at anyone or over a fence.

I'm not sure a recording will help, anyway, but YANBU to report this to anyone who might possibly be able to help or effect some change. It sounds awful, and you shouldn't have to live that way! It doesn't seem a good situation for anyone, including your neighbour.

To people suggesting you can 'put' people in residential care: If you believe that, you're living in the 1970s.

First of all legally, the 'client' has to decide that they want for themselves and it is extremely rare that anybody wants this for themselves.

Secondly, read the news. Social care is in crisis. Social services will do absolutely everything they can to avoid placing anybody in residential care. They will say it's in the best interest of the client but really it's because the places do not exist because they cannot afford to pay for them. You have to be extremely rich to afford to pay for this privately (minimum £5,000 per month).

Sorry OP, this doesn't help you I am just frustrated by how often I read people on MN talk about 'putting' people in residential care. Even when it absolutely would be the best thing for everyone concerned it is incredibly hard to arrange this unless you have the agreement of the person concerned and you are super rich.

Our (not attached) neighbour used to threaten to kill us if she saw us in our garden. Then there were the rats because all her rubbish was put out in the garden (in black bags) The police were called, as was the ambulance, there were carers, extended stays away (I guess in hospital ) until she became too frail to leave the house.

I work for a private care company and I would say report, report, report. Report to adult social care services and to the care company and 101 as a PP has suggested. The care company needs as many reports as possible to provide evidence to social services of how bad things are getting for an individual.

It sounds like it does need reporting, if this is a noticable behaviour change from her "normal" then it can't be nice for her either to suddenly be living in a world where she feels she has to scream and attack people - it doesn't seem like a kindness to leave her in a setting where she's living with so many things upsetting her to the point of rage.

Secondly, read the news. Social care is in crisis. Social services will do absolutely everything they can to avoid placing anybody in residential care. They will say it's in the best interest of the client but really it's because the places do not exist because they cannot afford to pay for them. You have to be extremely rich to afford to pay for this privately (minimum £5,000 per month)

This is not true in our area once people start costing more than a certain amount of money if they need large amounts of care or more than one carer at a time. Once you have to have lots of carers, it is cheaper to put people in residential, indeed, I have been threatened/told this will happen to my family member and told I would have to pay the difference to keep them at home. I had to fight very hard to keep them at home.

@Enderwits

Yes, the house is ours. I’m not sure if NDN or care company owns NDN’s house.

@Snowpatrolling if you don’t mind me asking, would a neighbour reporting incidents to social services have helped your service user get help quicker? Or hindered in some way?

I did nearly record one if the bad attacks on a staff member in the garden during the night (audio, not visual) to show the manager, but decided not to in the end as I wasn’t sure if that was crossing a line.

No go for it, I’m dealing with a similar incident at the moment and as a care company we are bashing our heads against the wall trying to do right by the service user. The more back up and reports made to social services the quicker they need to deal with it. Social services tend to drag their feet due to funding but it comes a point where there’s to many reports and they have to pull their f her out. and the more evidence the better.

I think you have received good advice. The police have a duty of care to vulnerable persons, and can do a doorstep check on anyone they are concerned about. Adult social services (social care) will be overwhelmed as usual, so report by telephone but follow up with a letter to the manager at the local authority outlining concerns. Aggressive incidents involving carers will have been recorded. While it is possible that this woman has new mental health issues, it is the time of a crazy heatwave. If you know her GP, contact them as they have a duty of care to do a medication check and house call. Dehydration causes paranoia, delirium and hallucinations in some people. She may not be drinking enough fluid. It causes urinary tract infections and kidney disorders which also express themselves behaviourally in extreme forms. This could be a matter of a medication review, or fluid check which a nurse or a carer could look at. Why don't you stop one of the carers when they leave and discuss it with them, ask for the name of their manager? Write to the care agency as they have safeguarding duties.

Also, we don't know anything about the lady's capacity, but again, I can assure you if there's any doubts about capacity, social services may use that to get her to go where would be best for them. They more or less told me I could take over my relative's capacity and make decisions for them (which they would have preferred) in an attempt to override his (admittedly diminishing) capacity and wish to remain at home!

I am not one who idolises carers or the system, but clearly this lady is distressed and not receiving enough care, so a re-assessment by adult social service of the current system is urgently needed. I don't think it helps though to state she will never get taken into residential care, as actually it happens all the time, from hospital, to cut costs if the patient is aggressive/requires 24/7 care and so forth. It's still an economic decision, just one that may or may not suit those involved.

Also if you witness an attack call 999.
They have make a report and refer to social services. It doesn’t hinder but gets things moving. It’s harder for social services to ignore the police!

I had a neighbour similar to this, police told me even though ndn had mental health issues that didnt mean I had to suck up their behaviour, banging on walls, shouting and swearing at me, telling the other neighbours I was a prostitute, he even took a swing at me once and even took a swing at the police, played the victim until he realised the police didnt believe him then all hell really broke loose.
I would report to the manager of the carers, police and social services, I did and eventually ndn was moved into a warden controlled home.
It may take a while but keep reporting and keep a log of incidents and dates of when you reported it.
It seems it's not the done thing to report bad behaviour of people who have issues but you dont have to put up with it, they are not your responsibility & in the end it will affect your mental health.

@EvaHoffman that's not true. It's a question of capacity, which as you know is on a sliding scale. If this lady has capacity then the OP should be calling the police, it seems likely that she does not have full capacity and may no longer have the capacity to stay home (as staying home whilst screaming at neighbours and assaulting carers is a right she actually doesnt have).

Although lots of people do (or think) they prefer to stay at home, staying at home and increasingly not being able to cope is not a nice thing, esp when mental confusion takes over. It can be very frightening. I have seen several older people go through this deterioration and all, without exception, have ended up happier when settled in a good care home than they were the last few months at home (the settling can take a while though).

Please report it to the police as well as social services and the carers, @Enderwits.
It might be that they need to put a SIG warning on her address so that IF there is an incident and either that poor lady harms herself, or one of her carers is harmed, it could be flagged as a priority attendance.

You're not dobbing her in it, in the event of either her distress escalating or someone being harmed seriously there needs to be some audit trail of what's been happening so that any necessary action can be taken.

(I also work in the criminal justice system - not the police though, I get involved with the later bits...)

@Enderwits
Not read the full thread, but it sounds almost like a form of Dementia?

We had a woman up the road where we lived who always said ''Hello''..
Then she developed Dementia.

One baking hot day, I saw her outside her house, dressed in many many layers of thick woolies, she had locked herself out, and clearly thought she had been locked out by intruders..she was banging on her Victorian glass windows {brittle glass} saying ''Let me in!''

She was aggressive towards me, and didn't recognise me.

I knocked on neighbour's doors, and found her next door neighbour's son...who said that living next door to her was distressing, due to the hallucinations...and poor lady, her language was pretty fruity.

We managed to contacted her adult daughter, and in the end poor woman had to go into full time care.

It was frightening to see how a person could change from quiet and polite to aggressive and sweary....and very very loud.

The neighbour you have may need specialist care that she isn't getting.

Talk to the carer that is there NOW.
Why wait for the supervisor?