AIBU to be at wits end with disabled neighbour?

[Enderwits]

Fully expecting to get flamed but wanted to see what others think.

So as not to drip feed - myself and youngest ds have diagnosed autism. And I worked as a support worker for nearly ten years so do understand both sides and that she can’t really help it. That being said...

I am at my wits end. Our neighbour is a disabled lady who needs 24 hour care, more supervision really as she is fairly mobile and will help hang the washing out etc.

We have always been polite and spoken to her when seeing her out/in the garden etc. Most of the time she is quite friendly.

However her behaviour is deteriorating rapidly. She is now attacking staff, often in the garden (have heard them crying on the phone after being assaulted) and has started to scream and bang loudly on windows/shared walls/cars and shouting ‘fuck off’ far more frequently. As an example, the last two mornings we have been woken up at 4am with this. My youngest ds has autism and is extremely distressed when this happens.

She is also now doing it throughout the day. As you can imagine we don’t really want to have to keep all doors/windows closed for hours in this heat.

She has now started to scream ‘fuck off next door neighbour’ when my children/we are in the garden. We had to leave the paddling pool this morning due to it and my ds has been shaking and upset for the last two hours she won’t stop screaming and banging her windows.

I’m writing this as she is packing the car so we can bugger off for the day.

Over the last few months I’ve tried to just calm the dc with ‘come inside, ‘X’ is just a bit upset’ and do understand that I can’t exactly complain as she can’t really help it.

WIBU to have a chat with the manager when I next see her and just explain how much this is upsetting ds? When I was a support worker a gentleman I worked for ended up in a secure facility after deteriorating in what seems to be the same way (he threw a fire extinguisher at my head and ripped someone’s hair out).

She agrees with me, but DM says I shouldn’t say anything as one day that could be ds (though I think I’d agree if he was doing that then he probably was in the wrong setting).

AIBU?

The shouting and general unpleasantness/intimidation sounds horrible and annoying but......

She is now attacking staff, often in the garden (have heard them crying on the phone after being assaulted)

Would mean for me you HAVE to do something. I would definitely speak to the care people/manager in the first instance but progress if they don’t do anything. Just because she is old/ill/infirm doesn’t mean she can assault other people!

I think you should be reporting every single incident as she clearly needs help. If she was my family I'd hate to think it had gone unreported and she'd not had the help that she needed.

You shouldn't ignore what the neighbour is doing, and give her a free pass, just because (as your DM says), "one day it might be DS". That's irrelevant to the here and now.

You, your DS and your DH are fully entitled to "quiet enjoyment of your home", without a neighbour (disabled or not), screaming at you to "fuck off!", banging on things for hours, and clearly assaulting her carers.

Is it possible for your or DH to speak to one of the carers (I assume you know their comings and goings reasonably well) to express your concerns (for them, the neighbour and yourselves)?

You also need to be logging all the incidents somewhere as evidence. The first thing would be to contact the local council.

Yes - definitely start making official complaints before the situation escalates into criminal damage or assault, which will be much more traumatic for the neighbour.

Social services are on their knees at the moment. But they are being expected to carry on regardless. They can use your complaint as evidence for the need for more finance.

When I was a child we had a mentally ill neighbour. I still remember the shouts from next door, banging on the wall (we later saw the holes in the wall she made in her side) and she would throw objects like full tins over the fence when she saw me or my sister in our garden.

My parents had to call the police at that stage, managed to get hold of family and had to get a lawyer involved to serve a harressment warning. All this to get social services to take a stand and arrange care. They wouldn’t do anything without official paperwork to back up our and other neighbour’s claims.

The last year was hell, my sister was sitting A-level exams and couldn’t concentrate to study as she feared that every time she would go around the house the banging would start.

For your and your family’s health you need to do something.

Your neighbour has very challenging needs and it appears has deteriorated substantially so that care at home appears to not currently be working.

This sounds like a safeguarding issue.

First contact the care providers with your concerns (not annoyance though since concern is more appropriate and will help get the end result). If they don't fix this then contact adult social services and say you are concerned for your neighbour and for the care workers. This needs urgent attention.

Lockdown has been very difficult for people with these kinds of needs. It could be a temporary deterioration. It could be that she needs a medication review etc etc. I think speaking to the manager or perhaps reporting to social services is not unreasonable but I would make sure that you say you are concerned about her as she has deteriorated such that it is having an impact on your son. Those talking about sectioning should be ashamed of themselves. People with disabilities need care, not just being shut away in institutions. Google St Andrews health care and CQC or Ellingham hospital closure to find out why. People are systematically abused and forgotten in these places.

Definitely report the incident and carry on reporting them. Call Adult Social Services (they have an emergency number too if there's a massive problem during the night). If she's attacking people and you witness it then you should call the police.

I know she's unwell but my late mum had Alzheimer's and gradually deteriorated to the point that she didn't trust anyone and would wander at 4am. Luckily she was in an 'extra care' sheltered housing so we had a lot of support when we started the long road of getting her residential care. The point is mum was wandering, not eating correctly (even with four visits a day plus meals on wheels and us, her children, helping out), couldn't do her washing or ironing. She wasn't at the stage of attacking people (although her language got a bit ripe at times). It was still deemed right that she went into a home. I think your neighbour needs the same care now.

Your DM would feel awful if the neighbour ended up hurting herself or someone else (more than the attacks which are bad enough). She'll only get help if everyone pulls together and for that to happen, you need to report and keep reporting.

I'd report it to the manager, swearing at you in the garden is not something you should have to tolerate. Is your house yours? Just thinking if you complain to the police or council then you have to declare it if you move house as a neighbour dispute.
Sounds like you are being really tolerable to the situation tbh, we had a disabled child living next to us banging on walls and screaming, we moved because of it, my OH couldn't tolerate it at all!

I work in community care, and have dealt with patients like this.
As a carer we report everything and it’s not always fast to move someone into the right setting.
The care agency maybe doing everything they can but ultimately it’s down to social services to sort and due to Covid that’s not quick at the moment.

This lady is obviously in the wrong setting but just be mindful the agency have probably done everything they can for this lady at the moment. Their hands are probably tied.

Yanbu, log incidents, record on your phone ideally and speak to the manager in the first instance. You have a right to enjoy your home as well. It sounds intolerable. Swearing is something I personally will not stand for and you don't get a free pass for having a learning disability. My dd is autistic and we never allowed her to upset our neighbours

@MoreListeningLessChatting

Your neighbour has very challenging needs and it appears has deteriorated substantially so that care at home appears to not currently be working.

This sounds like a safeguarding issue.

First contact the care providers with your concerns (not annoyance though since concern is more appropriate and will help get the end result). If they don't fix this then contact adult social services and say you are concerned for your neighbour and for the care workers. This needs urgent attention.

The care agency have no power to “fix” this. They have to go through adult social services and they are the ones that “fix” the problem. As a care agency all they can do is keep reporting every incident.

Op I’d go straight to social services, the care provider would have been reporting this and having an outsider say something may move things along quicker.

Yes, the house is ours. I’m not sure if NDN or care company owns NDN’s house.

@Snowpatrolling if you don’t mind me asking, would a neighbour reporting incidents to social services have helped your service user get help quicker? Or hindered in some way?

I did nearly record one if the bad attacks on a staff member in the garden during the night (audio, not visual) to show the manager, but decided not to in the end as I wasn’t sure if that was crossing a line.

I used to be a team leader with adults with challenging behaviour so I would view this as safeguarding both to the neighbour herself and the staff themselves as well as what would be classed as general public such as yourself. From what you are saying the risks of her harming herself, her support workers or a member of the public do sound a real risk. I would find the number for your counties safeguarding and ring them this sounds as if it could easily spiral out control and her care providers are not dealing with it as they should .A new risk assessment should have been done the minute her behaviour escalated. The fact the staff are In tears and can't cope ( I do sympathise i had some real challenges ) but this won't be helping as she will pick up on this and it won't help .
You need to keep reporting op until someone listens .

No you can’t randomly record people in their own home.

Ah ok cross posted there @Snowpatrolling.

I will contact adult social services to report then and hope that helps speed things up for NDN and her support workers. I’ll look in to it when we get home.

If the staff are being assaulted then I would imagine the care company are fully aware of the situation. Personally I would be flagging it with adult social services. Who knows if the care company will do anything about it? By reporting it on you are helping your Neigbour to gain the right help. Do her family ever visit, if so could you approach them and let them know the differences in behaviour you’re witnessed?

I work for the police, so i advise this knowing how my own force would react. Id call 101, not to get the lady arrested, it would never happen anyway, but ask if a member of the beat team can pop in or give you a ring. They can also push adult social services referrals and will possibly go and see her for a general chat, to try and gauge what help or route is best to take, contact any family she may have etc who may be unaware of the decline and can make further arrangements for her care

No you can’t randomly record people in their own home

I was in my home, it’s a terraced house and our fence on NDN’s side is very low (looked in to the deeds but I am responsible for other fence so can’t put a higher one in). So if we are in the garden/kitchen we can see and hear NdN very clearly.

I wouldn’t have held the phone up and recorded her visually but was considering recording the audio of the attack. It was a particularly bad one that left the support worker bleeding from her eyebrow.

But I didn’t because I wasn’t sure what the right thing to do was. And I was a little in shock because it was the first time that I actually saw the attack happening in the garden, we had heard them in the house but not seen one iykwim.

@Gin4thewin thank you. If (probably when) I witness another attack on staff I will do that.

If she is intimidating your family and you are witnessing assault and damage to property you would need to log these incidents with the police and LA surely? Social services are only likely to act with strong evidence that there is an issue and it sounds like the agency are turning a blind eye to it (yet again, violence against staff being seen to be normalised as a part of a job 😠) . Due to the pressures social care are under she would need to move into the high risk pile, so logging incidents so people know what is really going on will help. I know it feels like wasting people's time and pestering them with incidents, but sometimes this is the only way to get things done unfortunately due to services having to prioritise cases.

Think of it from her position - it is boiling, uncomfortable and lonely and her deteriorating health isn't being addressed. This might mean getting her placed somewhere that meets her needs better, even if it does feel unkind reporting he behaviour. It is affecting you, your DC, neighbours and a heap of other people, so it is justified.