To feel sorry for Scottish children?

[silver3]

Imagine having to go back to school in this suffocating heat in new blazers and school shoes. I know September can be warm too but, it seems to me, there’s nearly always a heat wave like this in mid-August. My DC have been sleeping in the basement on and off for weeks because their bedrooms are like saunas. Schools don’t always have air-conditioning. AIBU to think Nicola Sturgeon should just push the start of term back to Sept?

Its to be 24⁰C here today. Poor ds will melt in his shirt and trousers at school, he's been in shorts for 5 months. Glad they've not to wear blazers

Just out of curiosity I have a question for those who live in the UK but outwith Scotland. Do you know that the days are longer in summer and shorter in winter the further north you go? There’s well over an hours difference between the south of England and the north of Scotland

No I've got to the age of 48 without ever knowing that

I have encountered quite a few people over the years who have come up to the West coast and been surprised at how rapidly the weather can change . Also, that it barely gets dark in summer or, light in the winter

Nonsense, they are commenting on it, not surprised by it. I know (some) people in Scotland think the education system south of the border is rubbish but we do know simple geographic facts. Hey some of us (not me) even did A level!

What is actually more interesting is the difference west to east. My mum gets noticeably more daylight in the evenings in Devon than I do in Hampshire and the distance is only around 160 miles. It's about half an hour difference.

[quote TheAquaticDuchess]@Waytoomuch82

Thank you for sharing that article from notorious eugenicist and homophobe Toby Young. I’m sure we all set much store by the opinions of a man who lied about his academic credentials to secure a job in the education sector and complained about schools having disability access ramps.[/quote]
@TheAquaticDuchess

He had bugger all to do with Independent global education rankings.

Do a modicum of research

I’m not criticising the Scottish. I have read the research including Scottish education experts and its poor

That's an interesting article by Toby Young which claims to be comparing the UK education systems so that he can prove that England is superior. In order to prove his point, he conveniently forgot to include the region of the UK where results are consistently higher than England. And where education has not been subject to the meddling that he is trying to claim is essential.

Newsflash - our local High School is closed due to flooding.

Yup, rain a much bigger problem in Scotland than sun - who knew? (well, most people, I suspect..)

I haven't bothered to read the whole thread so these points have probably been made. 1, not that hot here, 22/23 here in the Borders when ours were first to go back to school. It is normal for Scottish Schools to go back in mid July. Would normally have gone back next week abut the kids need to get back to work. We start our holidays at the end of June, suits us fine, we get cheaper holiday deals as a rule! And next year they are getting an extra week's summer holidays. So win win.

The Scotsman are more valid source on your eyes presumably?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scotland-slips-down-world-education-rankings-key-subjects-1460792%3famp

The Scotsman a more valid source

Here's an interesting fact for those who like to regurgitate the PISA score is proof that Scottish education is failing. While it's true that Scotland has dropped a couple of points below England, after always being ahead. One significant change brought by the CfE was that a policy to reduce the number of children excluded from school, there has been a significant drop. In contrast, school exclusions have rapidly increased in England. This goes some way to explain why your scores might drop when testing 15 year olds.

Being excluded from school has an incredible negative affect on your life and society. Reducing this and creating an education system that is focused on ALL children is worth the price in a tiny drop on an international table.

The standards of education in Scotland AREshite. Mine frequently come in the top
10 for the county... and yet I feel it’s nothing to boast of. I went to a good grammar in England and have a STEM degree. I am baffled by the CfE - one size fits all is not good enough. It’s great “no child left behind” but it means they are ALL dragged along the bottom.

Anyway, back to the weather. I’m on the A9 between Stirling and Perth - what a night! Only just got power back.

A 'Scottish Education' which used to be so highly regarded, has certainly declined hugely over the last decade. The CfE is woolly at Primary level and insular at Secondary level. Investment in FE is low and it is hard to get into a Scottish University as a Scottish student (they fill up with fee paying 'foreigners'). The slide in standards is so clearly shown in the International League Table that Swinney no longer wishes to be part of them. NS did, yesterday, publicly own the mess that was the massive downgrading of exam results in the poorer areas, but only because of the outcry - they let it happen to begin with. The attainment gap is widening in Scotland and I know a number of kids with SN and SEN who are 'out of school' entirely.

Neither Scotland nor England have a public education system that is fit for purpose imo, but they're quite different which can hide that fact.

• The standards of education in Scotland AREshite. Mine frequently come in the top 10 for the county.*

I'm curious, canI I ask how you know this? What do you mean by county? I'm in Glasgow and am completely unaware you can be told that your child is a top performer in my LA.

@Amortentia

* The standards of education in Scotland AREshite. Mine frequently come in the top 10 for the county.*

I'm curious, canI I ask how you know this? What do you mean by county? I'm in Glasgow and am completely unaware you can be told that your child is a top performer in my LA.

Tayside, just daft maths competitions they do and then adjusted from P1-S5. Like I say, it’s not a celebration to be “top” when I’m wincing at the inadequacy of tests. When an A is not an A...

My kids' schools have always said no blazers or ties during heat waves. I imagine the Scots will do the same if it's hot there.

In the Isle of Man, in August which is when the Summer Holidays are, the weather is always shite. Everyone always says we should follow the Scottish Summer Holidays. I wouldn’t feel sorry for the Scottish kids, they have free Higher Education. If only kids here got that.

@TheNavigator

Newsflash - our local High School is closed due to flooding.

Yup, rain a much bigger problem in Scotland than sun - who knew? (well, most people, I suspect..)

Several schools shut in my local Authority area due to flooding.

Last night was just mad!

It is warm here today though - low 20's - hot for here

@Amortentia

One significant change brought by the CfE was that a policy to reduce the number of children excluded from school, there has been a significant drop.

^ I wouldn’t say that was necessarily a good thing. Why should the other kids have to put up with continued disruptive behaviour of a child, with no observable consequences for those kids? That’s hardly fair on them, is it?

@fascinated

a bad thing for all actually.
the kids who don't need additional input are disrupted by those that do
the kids that do need it, are dumped in mainstream with no extra input

[quote fascinated]@Amortentia

One significant change brought by the CfE was that a policy to reduce the number of children excluded from school, there has been a significant drop.

^ I wouldn’t say that was necessarily a good thing. Why should the other kids have to put up with continued disruptive behaviour of a child, with no observable consequences for those kids? That’s hardly fair on them, is it?[/quote]
Totally agree
It obviously goes beyond that policy but if this policy does go hand in hand with the decline then... it’s a poor poor policy.

Impacting on a negative way the majority in order to abide by a policy to keep a child on the school that really shouldn’t be there.

Who says other kids are being disrupted by this? I think keeping all children is a priority. My kids school have specific classes and a specialised unit for those who require more support. A far better outcome for society than an I'm alright jack attitude and dumping kids from education.

So what if it brings down overall marks, it doesn't impact on individuals. That's the attitude that private schools take when they push kids out because they don't want they're scores brought down. An unacceptable attitude for state schools as far as I'm concerned.

Oh come on

Children that would otherwise have been excluded if not for this policy - you don’t think disrupt others?

You have said that the reason there’s been a decline in standards is because of the policy to avoid exclusions.

So.... are you saying these children That would have been excluded if not for the policy are responsible? Why?

They haven't stopped excluding children, just tried to reduce it. Excluded children tend to have lots of issues going on in their life and the sooner they are pushed out the worse the outcomes for them and ALL of society. Focuses on other methods can reduce this, exclusions are an easy, short term fix.

@Waytoomuch82

You have said that the reason there’s been a decline in standards is because of the policy to avoid exclusions.

So.... are you saying these children That would have been excluded if not for the policy are responsible? Why?

I didn't say there had been a reduction in standards. I said that an international test on 15 year olds could produce a different result because one country tried to keep children with issues in schools, whilst others push them out. The same method is used by private schools who gloat about there top marks but failed to mention that less able students aren't accepted or pushed out.

*their top marks.