To think that if you raise a child vegetarian you need to offer them more variety than fake meat??

[Reddletweedle]

We haven’t seen DSD throughout lockdown and have just started seeing her again. Her mum has been vegetarian for a while and is controlling of DSD in general (separate issue), refused to prepare her meat (fair enough In own home) but also refused to allow her to order meat dishes when eating out. Pre lockdown DSD loved eating meat when with us, now she has decided to be veggie like her mum.
I make most of the meals and do the grocery shopping order so was asking DSD what she likes to eat as a vegetarian now. I make quite a lot of veggie dishes and snacks to give my children (DS3 and DD1) plenty of variety as well as meat and before contact stopped DSD usually opted for meat meals so didn’t have the same as my own kids if they were having something veggie. Have to say I was surprised when she said she usually has quorn burgers or quorn sausages. I asked if she ate other vegetarian food besides pretend meat - stir fries, curries, veggie omelettes, hummus, falafel, bean burgers nut roasts.... She hasn’t ever tried the dishes I suggested. I didn’t think I suggested anything particularly exotic - aren’t stir fries, curries and omelettes affordable, nutritious weekly staples of family life?
Am I unreasonable to think that if you are coercing a child into following your veggie mindset you should be encouraging them to eat more variety than simply swap real meat for fake meat???

The birth mothers always seem to be controlling on here.

I don’t believe in ethical vegetarianism. Do you eat eggs and dairy? If you do - How can you say slaughter is wrong yet happily support the separation of mother cow and calf so selfish humans can consume milk not intended for them Not relevant to this discussion.

I am not separated, not a step-mother and not veggie so not invested in this.

It just sounds like a pop at the ex because you want to have a pop. Why do women have to be so competitive and unhelpful - wouldn't it be in the interests of children for step mum and real mum to at least try to get on? But it seems to be a competition for who can be the most unreasonable.

That said, I don't agree with parents who try to control their kids' food choices outside the home. Yes they can be veggie at home and when they are with you. But if they visit a friend or relative without you or are in the school canteen they should be able to choose meat if they want.

One of my daughters became vegetarian three or four years ago and hardly ate vegetables! We laughed about it at the time. Over the years she's expanded her palate considerably and will try lots of vegetables she never used to eat. She eats meat substitutes quite a lot as it means she can join in our meals just with the substitute, we also eat veggie or vegan 3 or 4 times a week, so about 50/50%.

There is no issue here. Meat substitutes are fine. You have the opportunity to expand out her choices over time as well, so you can choose to cook nut cutlets or butter bean stew if you want, my dd would eat neither, but would eat different veggie pastas, lasagne, aubergine fritters, as well as Quorn.

This is just a non-issue and sounds like you want something to criticise the mum for when you can, as a family, do the very thing (eat vegetarian without meat substitute) yourselves when she's with you!

If she likes the food I don't see the problem.

@Illdealwithitinaminute

One of my daughters became vegetarian three or four years ago and hardly ate vegetables! We laughed about it at the time. Over the years she's expanded her palate considerably and will try lots of vegetables she never used to eat. She eats meat substitutes quite a lot as it means she can join in our meals just with the substitute, we also eat veggie or vegan 3 or 4 times a week, so about 50/50%.

There is no issue here. Meat substitutes are fine. You have the opportunity to expand out her choices over time as well, so you can choose to cook nut cutlets or butter bean stew if you want, my dd would eat neither, but would eat different veggie pastas, lasagne, aubergine fritters, as well as Quorn.

This is just a non-issue and sounds like you want something to criticise the mum for when you can, as a family, do the very thing (eat vegetarian without meat substitute) yourselves when she's with you!

I eat a lot of meat substitutes since I quit meat. I like the texture and taste. That said, I eat other things as well. Vegetable soup, paneer curry, pasta, that kind of thing.

Because at 11 DSD clearly wanted to eat meat. Until she chose to cut it out. It’s a Bit different to a toddler eating veggie because mum and dad do - that’s understandable but if a child clearly wants to eat meat /not eat meat and especially at secondary school that’s his or her choice, not the parents?
I’ve already said my kids eat a wide variety of meat and veggie foods. I suppose my point although poorly put across was if someone is going to educate their child about alternative sources of protein to the cultural “norm” (boring basic meat) then surely it’s better to include sources of protein that aren’t coloured, flavoured and packaged up to replicate meat?
I’m very sorry if I’ve offended anyone or come across as judgemental but as someone who was a veggie for a large part of my childhood and adolescence (through choice) I wondered if I was being unreasonable in thinking DSD should be having more than just meat subs. For variety- not because I think it’s nutritionally poor, I’ve never said that.
🙈

I don’t understand the level of anger towards my OP when all I’ve said is surely more variety than pretend meat is better for a veggie child (or indeed, any child regardless of diet??)

If that was all you said, then this thread would be very different.

But I'm not angry, and I suspect most people here haven't invested that level of emotion in this thread.

But you seem to have an acute lack of self awareness in the way you choose language. You seem to think we are in the wrong for how we perceive you, but we can only go by what you say.

And what you say is hypocritical and clearly you have little respect for your DSD's mother.

Completely derailing your thread, but I have never really "understood" fake meat.
We are a family of omnivores.
Dd collects eggs from the hens at school.
We probably have meat once every week or 2. (Finances. And not buying cheap meat for the sake of having meat)
I am the picky eater... dont like curry. Only like fresh green beans. But still have a good variety of food and we are healthy.
Actually, you have reminded me, dd picked up a packet of ham. Fresh white bread. Real butter. Ham butties for lunch today!

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz because her stepdad was shielding. He’s got a condition that put him on the list. There’s no contact issues if that’s what you’re asking, we fully respected their need for contact to stop. DSD had FaceTime loads. We missed her obviously but it’s a crap time for everyone isn’t it.

Sorry, missed my own point!
We are perfectly happy to eat meals without meat.
Pasta with pesto
Pasta with veg and tomato sauce
Herby omelette
Egg and chips
Roasted/bbq veg kebab
Veg soup.
Baked potatoes with various fillings

I suppose my view is clouded as I am allergic to a lot of "quorn" type stuff

What is your problem exactly? There's no animal in "fake meat" and the point of being vegetarian is not to animals so eating quorn and other alternatives is perfectly acceptable.

there’s no such thing as ethical eggs. Sorry. I do eat eggs but it’s wrong.

There’s no such thing as ethical eggs from shops. If you have your own chickens (especially if they’re rescue chickens) then I would say it’s acceptable to eat their eggs if the chickens aren’t upset by them being taken away... which in my experience most chickens aren’t! If they’re not rescue then it becomes more of a morality of pets issue, I suppose.

I’m vegan but if I’m ever in the position to have rescue chickens I would eat any eggs that appeared, although I appreciate that would make me a non vegan. Chickens laying eggs isn’t the same as a cow being constantly milked.

I would say your last post sounds even worse tbh

She is veggie at home, her mum is veggie, she chooses veggie at school, so when she comes round you think oh I'll offer her meat?!

'And DSD told us she chooses veggie at school because she knows her mum would be be unhappy if she chose meat. Therefore I offered her meat when she was here because at 11 she has a right to choose for herself, right? '

No, not therefore at all.

And has it occurred to you that the 11yo DD is having to handle this situation where she's a veggie at home and knows meat eating upsets her, she chooses veggie at school when she could easily have it, and then at yours it's all we're having vegetation but we've got you bacon in especially because we know how much you like it...?

Must be a nightmare for her tbh.

I suppose my point although poorly put across was if someone is going to educate their child about alternative sources of protein to the cultural “norm” (boring basic meat) then surely it’s better to include sources of protein that aren’t coloured, flavoured and packaged up to replicate meat?

I think she was just feeding her child, not ‘educating her about alternative sources of protein’. Are meat eaters ‘educating’ their children when they feed them meat?’ No, they just do it.

Well yes you're right, but shouldn't you be talking to her father about it? The issue here is the child's nutrition but it reads like an attempt to create an online pile on against her mother. Her father needs to take an active role in this if he thinks something is wrong with how she's being cared for. Is he?

Completely derailing your thread, but I have never really "understood" fake meat.

What’s to ‘understand?’

I think it’s weird to pressure children in to eating meat as the default option.

In fact I think dc should be vegetarian until they are old enough to know about meat, slaughter houses and intensive farming.

Then if they want to eat heavily processed meat instead of quorn, let them.

But I agree with a lot of posters that it’s not really about meat.

Yep she needs a healthier and more varied diet, but I see just as many (if not more) meat eating kids live off things like fishfingers, baked beans and chips! 🤷‍♀️
I don't think it's necessarily a veggie thing.

“Coercing”? Aren’t you coercing children to eat meat OP? Think about it, it should only take a moment or two.

Also I'm a full time veggie and don't offer my baby meat as dont agree with it. If he's older and wants it then that's his choice :) but again, many meat eating families will only offer meat. There is a moral dilemma either side.

Quorn is handy if you are cooking meat . Otherwise just cook the whole family vegetarian food, curries are a good starting point, bean chilli. I make enchiladas with quorn "chicken pieces" and kidney beans, tastes like meat to be honest. If she's not actually keen on vegetables that could be the issue (my dd went veggie but refused veggies!)

You've just said you don't believe you can be an ethical vegetarian if you still have dairy and eggs. So you need to be vegan to be ethical? I think that's unfair as being vegetarian is still greatly reducing the harm. Being vegan is much more difficult especially for a child.

You really are digging your own hole!

Completely derailing your thread, but I have never really "understood" fake meat.

Oh my lord. I'm not even veggie and even I get this one. Many people love meat. They decide they must be a veggie for moral or environmental reasons, but they miss and want to eat meat, and meat substitute are enjoyable/the closest they can get, so they eat them. Duh

again, many meat eating families will only offer meat.

I've never yet met a family who has only offered meat to children. Humans are not carnivores. We are omnivores. This means that the default diet is one of inclusion and is by nature unrestricted.

Completely derailing your thread, but I have never really "understood" fake meat

What is there to understand about it? I've been a vegetarian for most of my life, eating is partly enjoyable because of texture and mouth feel, fake meat gives that enjoyment. Deciding to become vegetarian/vegan has little or nothing to do with not enjoying meat.