To think that if you raise a child vegetarian you need to offer them more variety than fake meat??

[Reddletweedle]

We haven’t seen DSD throughout lockdown and have just started seeing her again. Her mum has been vegetarian for a while and is controlling of DSD in general (separate issue), refused to prepare her meat (fair enough In own home) but also refused to allow her to order meat dishes when eating out. Pre lockdown DSD loved eating meat when with us, now she has decided to be veggie like her mum.
I make most of the meals and do the grocery shopping order so was asking DSD what she likes to eat as a vegetarian now. I make quite a lot of veggie dishes and snacks to give my children (DS3 and DD1) plenty of variety as well as meat and before contact stopped DSD usually opted for meat meals so didn’t have the same as my own kids if they were having something veggie. Have to say I was surprised when she said she usually has quorn burgers or quorn sausages. I asked if she ate other vegetarian food besides pretend meat - stir fries, curries, veggie omelettes, hummus, falafel, bean burgers nut roasts.... She hasn’t ever tried the dishes I suggested. I didn’t think I suggested anything particularly exotic - aren’t stir fries, curries and omelettes affordable, nutritious weekly staples of family life?
Am I unreasonable to think that if you are coercing a child into following your veggie mindset you should be encouraging them to eat more variety than simply swap real meat for fake meat???

Someone who isn’t even the childs parent questioning her about her mums cooking habits is frankly weird and intrusive.

Why don't you take this as an opportunity to introduce your DSD to some new foods and teach her how to cook them so that she can prepare them when she is at home with her mum? It would show that you are taking an interest in their choice to become veggie and would satisfy your worry that she isn't getting enough variety. When I first went veggie I would eat a lot of quorn products because they were convenient. After a period of time this got really boring. I am no longer veggie but I do make an effort to ensure we only eat one or 2 meals a week that have meat in and like you curries, stir fries, etc feature heavily on the menu.

The OP has a point that vegetarian meat replacements are processed shit, albeit dressed up as a healthy option. Pulses and nuts etc are excellent forms of nutrition and form part of a balanced vegetarian diet.

Actually if you want my spin on dietary choices, not just your nonsense observation - I don’t believe in ethical vegetarianism. Do you eat eggs and dairy? If you do - How can you say slaughter is wrong yet happily support the separation of mother cow and calf so selfish humans can consume milk not intended for them?

No diet is perfect or harmless, vegetarians almost certainly result in fewer animal deaths and less animal cruelty simply through consuming fewer animal products.

Also they are more likely to be mindful of animal welfare and ethics in general so more likely to eg buy organic / local, where the calf stays with mother longer, eggs from a community farm etc.

@HappyPunky her mum has been veggie for a while. Not a new vegetarian! That’s why I was surprised she’s not been including a wider variety all along. I only know now because DSD no longer eats meat here. I got excited thinking she would eat things I make here anyway, thinking as a veggie she might be broadening her palette. Before If I was making a veggie dish and offered it to DSD (knowing she liked eating meat here and was her only opportunity to do so) id say we’re having this meal, would you like some or would you prefer x (insert meat dish here) she would always opt for meat.

I agree that forcing a child to be vegetarian is wrong if it goes against their wishes. I’m vegetarian and buy/prepare meat for DS who tried being vegetarian as a younger child but decided to return to eating meat. It should be their own choice in my opinion.

It sounds to me like DSD is quite fussy. You say pre lock down that she would choose a meat meal over a veggie meal and therefore I think it's based on her liking the taste of meat and therefore liking the meat substitute items. I presume alongside the veg substitutes she's eating vegetables etc.

Just feed her stir fry, curry etc at yours and let her and her mum figure things out at their house.

Before If I was making a veggie dish and offered it to DSD (knowing she liked eating meat here and was her only opportunity to do so) id say we’re having this meal, would you like some or would you prefer x (insert meat dish here) she would always opt for meat

So it's okay for you to allow her to eat what she wants, but somehow her mother is wrong for giving her meat substitutes, which (from the impression you give) is what she wants?

(when I say 'from the impression you give' I mean comments like I got excited thinking she would eat things I make here anyway, thinking as a veggie she might be broadening her palette )

@nanbread yes I agree no diet is perfect. We have to consume something and whether we like it or not we have an impact on the planet. Even vegan crops need space to grow. Imported fruit and veg (avocado features heavily in vegan recipes!!) has a massive impact.
Humans don’t need dairy and although purchasing from a farm where the calves are allowed to suckle is preferable it’s not always available or affordable and there’s no such thing as ethical eggs. Sorry. I do eat eggs but it’s wrong.

If you're happy to offer dsd the choice of meat or veggie I would carry on doing so and leave her mum to it then.
When she's back at school she will be able to choose the meat option there too she won't be living on quorn.

@TheAquaticDuchess actually if you want my spin on dietary choices, not just your nonsense observation - I don’t believe in ethical vegetarianism. Do you eat eggs and dairy? If you do - How can you say slaughter is wrong yet happily support the separation of mother cow and calf so selfish humans can consume milk not intended for them?

So by this logic if you can’t commit to something 100% don’t bother

Every little helps, as they say. Even if everyone still ate eggs and dairy, being veggie will reduce the demand for animals raised for meat. By your logic because I don’t help dairy cows I shouldn’t care about those killed for meat either.

It’s very difficult to just cut out a food group. My veggie conversion took years of learning to cook other stuff, finding dishes I liked etc. I am now looking at cutting out dairy but still in the phase where I’m finding stuff I can use instead. Eggs I get from the house down the road that has rescue hens.

Why did you think that stopping eating meat would completely change her whole attitude to food?

I still don't get the 'meat meals' thing tbh. DD gets the same as us just without the meat eg pasta sauce I do the sauce, split some out for her and add meat. Ditto stir fry.

It's not complicated?

If she doesn't like stir fry then it's irrelevant whether it's got meat in it or not iyswim.

And if you were making a veggie meal for the family before eg stir fry why on earth would you say to her 'would you like meat in it' that's a bit odd to my mind. Either she likes stir fry or she doesn't iyswim.

[quote Reddletweedle]@HappyPunky her mum has been veggie for a while. Not a new vegetarian! That’s why I was surprised she’s not been including a wider variety all along. I only know now because DSD no longer eats meat here. I got excited thinking she would eat things I make here anyway, thinking as a veggie she might be broadening her palette. Before If I was making a veggie dish and offered it to DSD (knowing she liked eating meat here and was her only opportunity to do so) id say we’re having this meal, would you like some or would you prefer x (insert meat dish here) she would always opt for meat.[/quote]
The vegetarianism is completely irrelevant here. Some vegetarians have crap diets that are based mainly on processed food. Others don't. Some meat eaters have crap diets that are based mainly on processed food. Others don't. I don't know why you would hold vegetarians to a higher standard than meat eaters.

It sounds a bit like you’re looking for any excuse to be critical of DSD’s mum.

@NiceGerbil

Why did you think that stopping eating meat would completely change her whole attitude to food?

I still don't get the 'meat meals' thing tbh. DD gets the same as us just without the meat eg pasta sauce I do the sauce, split some out for her and add meat. Ditto stir fry.

It's not complicated?

If she doesn't like stir fry then it's irrelevant whether it's got meat in it or not iyswim.

And if you were making a veggie meal for the family before eg stir fry why on earth would you say to her 'would you like meat in it' that's a bit odd to my mind. Either she likes stir fry or she doesn't iyswim.

I'm not trying to be critical but a diet based on removing the meat is not likely to offer all the nutrients your dd needs unless your meals normal include things like legumes with the meat.

B12 and iron would be the main nutrients I would be concerned about. If she eats dairy, protein would be fine.

@NiceGerbil her mother wouldn’t even allow her to eat meat out and she looked forward to eating meat when she’s here. Of course I gave her plenty of veggies with her meat but Went out of my way to prepare meat for her because she couldn’t have it anywhere else and she was excited about it (Her mum gets her to have veggie option at school too).
I just thought her switching to a veggie diet would mean she would try more variety /be exposed to more variety and would then eat more of what I’m preparing anyway. As I’ve said I offered her meat because it was a special thing for her to have it here.

Protein isn't a problem with vegetarian diets. Cows seem to get enough from grass.

B12 is more of an issue with vegan diets than vegetarian. Breakfast cereals, dairy, eggs all have B12. But if she's not eating much of those a supplement might be a good idea.

The OP has a point that vegetarian meat replacements are processed shit, albeit dressed up as a healthy option.

Agreed. I think going veggie is great, there are loads of options beyond Quorn though. I think diet is an issue beyond being vegetarian though, plenty of meat eaters have far, far worse processed food. When she is with you surely you can just have a variety of stuff? And when she is with her mum it's her choice.

@NiceGerbil her mother wouldn’t even allow her to eat meat out and she looked forward to eating meat when she’s here. Of course I gave her plenty of veggies with her meat but Went out of my way to prepare meat for her because she couldn’t have it anywhere else and she was excited about it (Her mum gets her to have veggie option at school too)

So from the mum’s pov you are going against her wishes and insist on trying to get your sd to eat meat every time she goes round yours.

Maybe she’s had enough and this is all about you insisting your sd eats meat when she’s veggie.

It sounds a bit like you’re looking for any excuse to be critical of DSD’s mum.

Yep.

Coercing. 🙄

Ochon she's a veggie not vegan.

I like your suggestion that I may well be depriving her of nutrients though people are funny. You have zero idea what I put in my cooking!

Agree with the two PP who say that you sound like you're looking to criticise the mum and previously were undermining her by going out of your way to give her meat even when the meal you were coming didn't have any!

@bluebluezoo and @NiceGerbil you’re telling me a child who jumps at the opportunity to have a bacon sandwich at her dads, demolishes it in under a minute while says her mom won’t allow her meat and one of the things she loves about coming here is eating meat is undermining the mother and coercing a child? Ok then. We don’t even like bacon we only bought it in for DSD as a treat when she was coming here 😂😂 so in that example we had a veg omelette For lunch she had a bacon sarnie because we offered her a choice.
I don’t care if she eats meat or not. I support her decision whatever it is.

@Reddletweedle You have insinuated throughout your thread that you have a problem with meat substitutes. You only used to have them at barbeques, you shouldn't get all your nutrients from meat substitutes.

I appreciate it might be frustrating if you are making a veggie curry and your DSD doesn't like it, but if you used to make her alternative meat meals when she was with you, then it shouldn't really be a dramatic change.

Like so many have said, your point is entirely relatable to many a meat-eating family. Annoying that she doesn't eat your food, but she is also a child and children can be very fussy!

For lunch she had a bacon sarnie because we offered her a choice

Well it's great to see that your are offering much healthier options than the ones her mother is coercing her into 😂😂