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Original poster

Institutional Racism in our policing - Dawn Butler MP

525 replies

AuntyPasta · 09/08/2020 18:48

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/09/labour-mp-dawn-butler-stopped-by-police-in-london

The police stopped the car being driven by her friend (she was a passenger.) Unlike the elite athletes stopped with their 3 month old baby in the car www.theguardian.com/law/2020/jul/06/why-did-police-stop-and-search-bianca-williams-and-ricardo-dos-santos she’s had an apology.

AIBU to think that if she wasn’t an MP the police would be sticking by their ‘reasonable suspicion’? Is that what it takes to be dealt with fairly by the police?

OP posts:
Flaxmeadow · 10/08/2020 12:31

The police can look up anything they want about a car, a person and their criminal record. I can't believe people are so naive this

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 10/08/2020 12:32

If it was normal for drivers from West Yorks (or any other high crime area, or non-London area) to be stopped when driving in London, there would be loads of white MNers posting "Yes, exactly the same happened to me, the police said it was because my car is registered in a high crime area / not registered locally in London."

Not a single person has commented to that effect. Doesn't that tell you something?

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 10/08/2020 12:33

Flaxmeadow - Do any of the people you know drive second hand cars? Do they sometimes drive those cars on trips around the UK, away from their home area? How many have told you they've been stopped by police?

Actually, not sure why I'm even bothering. The racism is so blatant.

chomalungma · 10/08/2020 12:33

@Flaxmeadow

I am sure the police don't run every single number plate of cars they see.

No computers do that, all the time, 24 hours a day. Look around you, look up at all the traffic cameras. In urban areas, cars are constantly being surveilled

Correct

So either there was a computer error or a police error.

ANPR tells the police that the registration is 'dodgy' - could be the driver or it could be the location. The crime hotspot of North Yorkshire.

Police see car. They don't see that the car is different to the one on their computer.

They don't see that it's a different registration.

They do see 2 black people and tinted rear windows.

They pull it over.

Bit of a fuck up and poor observational skills.

Flaxmeadow · 10/08/2020 12:34

So you think thew ANPR system ran the plates and got it wrong?

She was a passenger. It was not her car They did not pull her or her car over

blurpityblurp · 10/08/2020 12:34

No computers do that, all the time, 24 hours a day. Look around you, look up at all the traffic cameras. In urban areas, cars are constantly being surveilled

Totally irrelevant since that’s not what happened here.

Her car wasn’t pulled over because it was flagged by ANPR or any form of automatic monitoring. A police officer saw her car, something about what he saw made him decide to MANUALLY run her licence plate.

The computer search the police officer ran on the licence plate showed that the car was registered in North Yorkshire (a low crime area) - the computer check did not bring up any information about links to crime or any of the other nonsense you keep inventing - the police officer made the decision to pull her over SOLELY because the licence plate computer search said the car was registered in North Yorkshire.

The police have not given any explanation as to why they decided to manually run the licence plate in the first place.

LakieLady · 10/08/2020 12:35

It's immaterial now we know the car the plods thought it was was registered in North Yorkshire, not West Yorkshire @Flaxmeadow.

All those two counties have in common is the word "Yorkshire".

blurpityblurp · 10/08/2020 12:35

She was a passenger. It was not her car They did not pull her or her car over

Irrelevant.

The car was not flagged by APNR. Period.

A police officer saw an expensive car driven by a black man with a black woman in the passenger seat and that alone was enough to make him decide to manually run the licence plate.

chomalungma · 10/08/2020 12:35

She was a passenger. It was not her car They did not pull her or her car over

You are missing the obvious thing.

The ANPR details are different to the car and the registration in front of them.

That is a massive fail.

Good thing it wasn't a hard stop with guns.

blurpityblurp · 10/08/2020 12:36

The driver is white!

Why are you so invested in defending racism that you invent lies like this?

sluj · 10/08/2020 12:36

Since you asked, my DH got pulled over and questioned as his pick up truck was registered in Wales and we were in the SE. My Dad got asked where he was going at 5am one morning ( on his way to work). Both white men

Flaxmeadow · 10/08/2020 12:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

chomalungma · 10/08/2020 12:38

But mumsnetters are not likely to be involved in crime. The police can look up criminal records in an instant, before they even stop the car

Are you going to answer the obvious point?

The details on their computer did not match the car in front of them.

So what does that say about these police officers?

Flaxmeadow · 10/08/2020 12:38

The ANPR details are different to the car and the registration in front of them

As I have already acknowledged but that wanst the point. As you know

ArriettyJones · 10/08/2020 12:38

ANPR tells the police that the registration is 'dodgy' - could be the driver or it could be the location. The crime hotspot of North Yorkshire.

So every car registered in a whole slice of Yorkshire has some kind of marker on the database designating it “dodgy”? And the automatic recognition camera flags them all up?

Seems like a shit system but if that’s what happened, I hope the officers involved can prove it. Not that it rules out silent racial profiling anyway.

blurpityblurp · 10/08/2020 12:38

The police can look up anything they want about a car, a person and their criminal record. I can't believe people are so naive this

But the computer record said the car/driver DID NOT have any link to crime or suspected crime. You are literally just making up complete lies.

chomalungma · 10/08/2020 12:39

@Flaxmeadow

The ANPR details are different to the car and the registration in front of them

As I have already acknowledged but that wanst the point. As you know

No you haven't.

The police fucked up.
And you seem to be defending that fuck up.

Flaxmeadow · 10/08/2020 12:40

The details on their computer did not match the car in front of them

Computers are not infallible, people accessing data are not infallible. We already know this. But that is not the point.

blurpityblurp · 10/08/2020 12:40

But mumsnetters are not likely to be involved in crime.

But obviously black people are?

The police can look up criminal records in an instant, before they even stop the car
But neither Dawn Butler or her friend have a criminal record. The car was not lined to crime in any way. The computer record didn’t flag anything to do with crime.

Flaxmeadow · 10/08/2020 12:42

But the computer record said the car/driver DID NOT have any link to crime or suspected crime. You are literally just making up complete

I haven't said what happened. I've already said I dont know. None of us do yet, I've given examples of what might have happened

ArriettyJones · 10/08/2020 12:42

@sluj

Since you asked, my DH got pulled over and questioned as his pick up truck was registered in Wales and we were in the SE. My Dad got asked where he was going at 5am one morning ( on his way to work). Both white men
It can’t be that widespread, though. Otherwise any one who relocated within the U.K. and took a car with them would be stopped daily.
blurpityblurp · 10/08/2020 12:42

But that is not the point.

No the point is a police officer made a decision to manually run a check on a licence plate for zero reason than because he believed two black people in an expensive car looked dodgy.

chomalungma · 10/08/2020 12:43

@Flaxmeadow

The details on their computer did not match the car in front of them

Computers are not infallible, people accessing data are not infallible. We already know this. But that is not the point.

The point is:

The computer got it wrong.
The police got it wrong.

The police are not infallible. But they have to be very careful when doing such stops as it just adds fuel to the fire about how the police treat black people.

blurpityblurp · 10/08/2020 12:44

I've given examples of what might have happened.

Except we know that your hypotheticals did not happen. We know the police officer made a decision to manually run the licence plate. We know the licence plate computer check did not bring up information about the car “being used in human trafficking” or being registered to a known criminal.

So why do you persist on sticking with your ridiculous works of fiction?

ReceptacleForTheRespectable · 10/08/2020 12:45

For those who don't know Yorkshire:

West Yorkshire - Predominantly made up of major cities (Leeds/Bradford) and towns, lots of motorways, densely populated, some areas of very high crime, some 'naice' areas. Some bits are semi-rural, albeit close to conurbations. Has tended to be Labour voting in the past.

North Yorkshire - No major cities (York is a bit small to count), several 'naice' market & coastal towns, no motorways (unless you count the A1(M)). Predominantly rural, sheep farming & moorland, contains two national parks. Consistently has one of the lowest crime rates in England (until 2020 it was the lowest). Votes Tory, blue as far as the eye can see.

They share the word 'Yorkshire' in the name, but could not be more different. Saying 'Ah but North Yorkshire is near West Yorkshire' makes the speaker sound frankly idiotic.

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