Institutional Racism in our policing - Dawn Butler MP

[AuntyPasta]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/09/labour-mp-dawn-butler-stopped-by-police-in-london

The police stopped the car being driven by her friend (she was a passenger.) Unlike the elite athletes stopped with their 3 month old baby in the car www.theguardian.com/law/2020/jul/06/why-did-police-stop-and-search-bianca-williams-and-ricardo-dos-santos she’s had an apology.

AIBU to think that if she wasn’t an MP the police would be sticking by their ‘reasonable suspicion’? Is that what it takes to be dealt with fairly by the police?

@chomalungma

You do know the difference between North and West Yorkshire?

I can't speak for Flax, but I've lived in both North and West Yorks, in both high and low crime areas (I spent a few years in one of the highest crime areas of Leeds). All of my cars have been bought second hand, from small local places (so they have obviously had various previous owners). I've never been stopped in my life, regardless of where I've driven.

I'm white.

It's a bullshit excuse, made even more ridiculous by the fact that this car was registered in North Yorks, one of the lowest crime areas around! North Yorks has none of the crime issues which Flax is talking about.

You have to ask what made them run the plates in the first place. I am sure the police don't run every single number plate of cars they see.

Still doesn’t explain why they ran her number plates or pulled her over in the first place.

Why does a dog lick its balls ?

Black people are taught from early childhood to be extremely careful to avoid doing anything around police that could be interpreted as aggression, because the tiniest hint of being even slightly argumentative or “difficult” or “emotional” can be exploited by racist police as an excuse for violence or wrongful arrest, even lead to murder.

The Nazis calling her “gleeful” because she was trying to de-escalate the situation need to fuck off back to kkk.com

It would be good if a police officer was brave enough to comment on some of this.

If there is even a scrap of truth in this “car from Yorkshire” business being something the police factor into their decision making, we all need to know.

What if a car number plate was thought to be involved in people smuggling/drug offences involving young people. Would you not want it to be stopped?

What the actual literal fuck is wrong with you?

Si the police randomly decided to run a plate manually, saw it was from North Yorkshire, thought it was near West Yorkshire, didn't realise the car they pulled over was different to the car registered with those plates. They have really fucked up. I can't imagine the conversation in the police car afterwards when they realised they had pulled over an MP.

What the actual literal fuck is wrong with you

I live in an area if high crime. I know a lot of mumsnetters don't have to deal with this problem but I do. Every fucking day. Rape, murder, gangs, trafficking, terrorism. I want the police to be able to their job if that's ok with you

I've been wondering about why it's so often the tint of the car windows that gets the blame for a stop. Somehow the tint is always found to be perfectly legal and just the factory setting.

It struck me that police generally expect to be able to see the driver and passenger faces through tinted side windows: white faces will show nicely while black ones just won't.

Black people must just get so weary of this! Racial profiling is obviously deeply entrenched, whatever excuses are made. I remember Butler's story of the lift, too, her being told it was 'not for cleaners'. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Butler has talked some rubbish about babies being born 'without sex', but regardless, I'd take to the streets with her any day to protest this relentless racial profiling.

I have been stopped twice - twice - in my entire motoring life of almost 50 years across four continents. Once I was speeding and once I was dithering at a roundabout in the early hours because some teenager (not mine) couldn't give clear directions and the cop thought I might be drunk. I wasn't even breathalysed. White privilege.

The gymnastics going on in this thread to justify why Dawn Butler and her friend being stopped does not surprise me. They are black after all, it could never just be because of that fact nooooooooooo way!

Si the police randomly decided to run a plate manually, saw it was from North Yorkshire, thought it was near West Yorkshire, didn't realise the car they pulled over was different to the car registered with those plates

No the police look up cars and see the history, of both of the car and the owners, now and previous. I can't believe people dont understand this.

Still doesn’t explain why they ran her number plates or pulled her over in the first place

They didn't

So you think thew ANPR system ran the plates and got it wrong?
And the police then decided to pull it over - and didn't realise that either:

a) The plates were wrong to what they had been told
or
b) The car was different to what the computer was telling them it was

You do realise criminals drive cars?

She’s an MP! You think she must be a criminal just because she’s black?

No but she was in a high crime area

Bullshit.

An area of high crime

Explain how police know on sight (without running a licence plate) that a car is from a “high crime area” (or according to you, a region of Yorkshire which is near to a different region of Yorkshire that has some areas of high crime)?

Yes they can. They have sophisticated computer systems

Evidently not, since they had to a) make the decision to manually run the number plate and b) entered the number plate incorrectly.

It struck me that police generally expect to be able to see the driver and passenger faces through tinted side windows: white faces will show nicely while black ones just won't.

It’s illegal to have any tint on the driver or passenger windows. You can only have it in the back.

The issue here is just good old-fashioned subconscious racism. Maybe with some weird Yorkshire profiling overlaid on top.

This thread is very illuminating

@Flaxmeadow

Si the police randomly decided to run a plate manually, saw it was from North Yorkshire, thought it was near West Yorkshire, didn't realise the car they pulled over was different to the car registered with those plates

No the police look up cars and see the history, of both of the car and the owners, now and previous. I can't believe people dont understand this.

You do realise that either the plates were wrong OR the car was different to the one they had pulled over.

I get that the police use ANPR and can see vehicle and occupant history.

I hope the police are intelligent enough to see when the plates / vehicle are different to what the computer is telling them.

Have the police said why they ran their numberplate through their system anyway?

@Flaxmeadow

I've just checked and apparently the police said North Yorks. That makes the excuse even more implausible, and completely invalidates the excuses made above (which were ridiculous anyway, but more so if applied to North Yorks).

Just seen this, but NY is close to WY and there is a big county lines problem as well.

What if a car number plate was thought to be involved in people smuggling/drug offences involving young people. Would you not want it to be stopped?

"NY is close to WY"?

Oh my god, you're right - they share a county border and everything!! Do you know how big North Yorkshire is? It's the largest county in England. There are places in North Yorkshire that are 40 or 50 miles from West Yorkshire.

Liverpool is close to Manchester, but the Beatles were still Scousers.

Also - if the car's history had come up as being linked to drug or terrorism offences, the police would be publicly saying so, because it would exonerate them of racism. They have said nothing of the kind,. therefore it's reasonable to conclude that this was not the case.

You sound utterly ridiculous.

@JamieLeeCurtains

This thread is very illuminating

And depressing.

A few months ago my DP who is a PA to an autistic person who was with him was pulled over by the Police and asked why he was in our city when the car was registered in another city. My DP assured him the car was correctly registered to his address. The Policeman walked back to the car after making enquiries and advised "control had input the wrong registration number". My DP, and his client are both white. It makes you wonder if it's a ploy the Police have when pulling people over for no reason.

No the police look up cars and see the history, of both of the car and the owners, now and previous. I can't believe people dont understand this.

You are literally just making stuff up.

First, WHY did they “look the car up” in the first place, other than racial profiling? Do you think police enter the number plate of every single car that drives past into their computer? No, clearly not. So why did they do it in this case?

Second, the reason they pulled Dawn over is because when they entered the “incorrect” number plate, the computer record showed it was registered in Yorkshire. Not that it was purchased from someone dodgy. Not because it was owned by or had previously been owned by a criminal. Not because the license plate had “been used in a crime.” Not because the car was registered to “an area of high crime.” All of those things are things that you invented. If a licence plate check had revealed any of those things the police would have revealed that as the reason for the stop.

The fact the police claimed “registered in Yorkshire but driven in London” as the sole reason for the stop - when clearly it’s not common to pull over cars purely for being driven in a different area - shows what nonsense your posts are.

I get that the police use ANPR and can see vehicle and occupant history.

What kind of occupant history shows up? Surely they can only know about the registered keeper and anyone previously stopped in the car?

I am sure the police don't run every single number plate of cars they see.

No computers do that, all the time, 24 hours a day. Look around you, look up at all the traffic cameras. In urban areas, cars are constantly being surveilled