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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Institutional Racism in our policing - Dawn Butler MP

525 replies

AuntyPasta · 09/08/2020 18:48

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/09/labour-mp-dawn-butler-stopped-by-police-in-london

The police stopped the car being driven by her friend (she was a passenger.) Unlike the elite athletes stopped with their 3 month old baby in the car www.theguardian.com/law/2020/jul/06/why-did-police-stop-and-search-bianca-williams-and-ricardo-dos-santos she’s had an apology.

AIBU to think that if she wasn’t an MP the police would be sticking by their ‘reasonable suspicion’? Is that what it takes to be dealt with fairly by the police?

OP posts:
SimonJT · 09/08/2020 18:53

As another brown person living in Hackney I doubt they would have been left alone if she wasn’t an MP.

Would a car of white people be stopped in Hackney if their vehicle was registered in Yorkshire and lie about tints on rear windows? Very very unlikely.

At least she didn’t have any vaseline, yet another item thay black and brown people aren’t allowed to carry in the UK.

midgebabe · 09/08/2020 18:55

The vehicle wasn't registered to Yorkshire, that was the excuse used. They lied basically

letmethinkaboutitfornow · 09/08/2020 19:02

@SimonJT - At least she didn’t have any vaseline, yet another item thay black and brown people aren’t allowed to carry in the UK.

Sorry but why did you mention Vaseline? Am I missing something? 😳

AuntyPasta · 09/08/2020 19:22

The police have used the presence of a pot of Vaseline in someone’s car as reasonable grounds to search. Apparently it’s used by criminals to aid in hiding drugs anally. It’s also used by hundreds of thousands of people as lip balm and on dry skin. My ex-SIL always kept some in every handbag and in her car but they didn’t pull her over and arrest her (more’s the pity)

OP posts:
AuntyPasta · 09/08/2020 19:25

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/campaigners-blast-police-as-black-man-is-suspected-of-using-vaseline-to-smuggle-drugs_uk_5eefa11dc5b65aeafbc0b5d5

Here. Basically they arrested and searched a 24 year old black man and the grounds they gave for suspicion was Vaseline in his car.

OP posts:
letmethinkaboutitfornow · 09/08/2020 19:29

@AuntyPasta thanks! I didn’t hear that!
I love my Vaseline and was worried that it’s been ‘cancelled’ or being inappropriate since I last watched the news!

Needless to say, pathetic excuse! 😔

AuntyPasta · 09/08/2020 19:40

It’s rather like the ‘smelled drugs’ one. Yes, there will be times when they genuinely smelled drugs but there will also be times when it’s an easy allegation to make to justify a search that they hope might yield something and it covers them if anyone complained afterwards.

OP posts:
SimonJT · 09/08/2020 20:04

[quote letmethinkaboutitfornow]@AuntyPasta thanks! I didn’t hear that!
I love my Vaseline and was worried that it’s been ‘cancelled’ or being inappropriate since I last watched the news!

Needless to say, pathetic excuse! 😔[/quote]
I’m yet to experience a stop and search that is anywhere near being legal.

I always drive a civic type r, so a ‘nice’ car, when I was with an ex we paid for it together, I had to explain to him why the car had to be registered in my name not his so when I got stopped I could show physical proof that I purchased the car and I was the registered keeper. The risk of being pulled over in a car not in his name just wasn’t a risk so it wasn’t something that had crossed his mind.

My favourite reason for a stop and search was because I was wearing glasses (not sunglasses, normal seeing glasses), I did ask if they were also going to search my friend who was also wearing glasses, oddly they didn’t, said friend was white, so not a shock.

At least invent a more interesting reason to stop us!

letmethinkaboutitfornow · 09/08/2020 20:19

That is sad!
Sometimes I feel ashamed of being British 😔
Why cannot all people live together, in peace?

areyoubeingserviced · 09/08/2020 20:27

The police officer must have been shocked to find out he had stopped an MP.

JuniperFather · 09/08/2020 20:31

There's no question police are using ridiculously spurious reasons to stop and search, tenuous and hard to substantiate reasons.

Instead of needing to have "grounds", stop and search is turning into a fishing expedition. Can we hopefully stop a black person and find a connection to drugs? Maybe we'll get lucky tonight, maybe we wont but who cares if we don't.

It's a pure game of chance.

The only thing I can say however is that we in the Black community don't make it easy for ourselves sometimes. The "no snitching" policy I grew up with leads to people
who are victims of crime, continuing to foster an environment of crime, just because they won't report a perpetrator due to "the code" or fear of reprisals.

If people weren't so against snitching, perhaps the police would have a marginally easier job linking together suspects and individuals associated with crime.

Still doesn't excuse these ludicrous, disgraceful stopping and searching incidents which are basically blind fishing trips.

JuniperFather · 09/08/2020 20:32

@areyoubeingserviced

The police officer must have been shocked to find out he had stopped an MP.
Wouldn't have probably had any inkling she could have been one. This is the same person I believe who was stopped by security at the House of Commons and suspected for being an intruder.
PicsInRed · 09/08/2020 20:41

Apparently black people shouldn't be travelling outside their home area - that's a a stoppable offense. Don't know when that law came into force, but no hols to London for black people, eh?

Naw, that's completely fine and normal, Met, nothing to see here. Hmm

AlecTrevelyan006 · 09/08/2020 20:49

She was the passenger. The driver was white. I'm obviously missing something.

PicsInRed · 09/08/2020 20:55

@AlecTrevelyan006

She was the passenger. The driver was white. I'm obviously missing something.
From the article:

"Butler, a strong critic of police stop-and-search tactics, said the car was being driven by her male friend, who like Butler is black"

R1R2 · 09/08/2020 20:56

Out of area cars are frequently targeted its part of the crack down on county lines crime. Bet Butler thought all her Christmases had come at once

AlecTrevelyan006 · 09/08/2020 20:58

well she was definitely the passenger and the driver looks white to me - guess I could be wrong

twitter.com/krs_1991/status/1292530306872942599

AuntyPasta · 09/08/2020 20:59

At the moment there are a lot of people complaining about being ‘forced’ to wear masks in shops, saying it infringes their civil liberties Hmm I wonder how they’d cope with being randomly stopped, expected to provide their details, expected to justify their movements, being searched and, if they get annoyed at any of this, being dragged off to a police station for being ‘obstructive’?

OP posts:
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/08/2020 21:04

It’s rather like the ‘smelled drugs’ one. Yes, there will be times when they genuinely smelled drugs but there will also be times when it’s an easy allegation to make to justify a search that they hope might yield something and it covers them if anyone complained afterwards.

Just before lockdown a family member had a disaster with a chest freezer full of food (electricity went off and he didn't notice for a month as it was in an outbuilding). We went to clean it out and - as it was full of rotting meat etc. - it smelt like a rotting corpse. We had to travel to the dump with everything bagged in many layers and there was no mistaking the smell.

We were apprehensive of being pulled over by the police either then or for a spot check for weeks afterwards as there was no mistaking the smell of putrescene and cadaverine. The warm weather has reawakened the smell in the car…

AuntyPasta · 09/08/2020 21:05

Bet Butler thought all her Christmases had come at once

I’m sure she was glad that for once there would be consequences for the police.

The car wasn’t registered outside London. The officer had entered the registration number wrongly. Why exactly they entered the registration number ...

OP posts:
AlphabetABC · 09/08/2020 21:06

I thought the driver of the vehicle was white.

AuntyPasta · 09/08/2020 21:07

’the driver looks white to me - guess I could be wrong‘

I’m trusting Dawn Butler to know if her friend is black Hmm

OP posts:
LakieLady · 09/08/2020 21:07

This is the same person I believe who was stopped by security at the House of Commons and suspected for being an intruder

I hadn't heard that story, but she was mistaken for a cleaner by a Tory MP, when she was in an "MPs only" lift. He told her that the lift wasn't for use by cleaners!

chomalungma · 09/08/2020 21:15

Comments on the DM are predictable

"Police just doing their job"
"Be polite to the police"
"What's her problem"

I can see that if you are part of a community that regularly gets stopped by the police when they have no real cause to stop, then you would get pissed off.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 09/08/2020 21:24

@AuntyPasta

’the driver looks white to me - guess I could be wrong‘

I’m trusting Dawn Butler to know if her friend is black Hmm

well, I admit to not being a huge fan of hers

and in the video i linked to earlier, the driver looks white (IMHO)

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