Elderly mother fibbing on car insurance

[Transitory73]

I think that I’m in the right, but would appreciate some insight.

(I’ve namechanged for this).

My mother is 86. She learned to drive in her fifties, and has had a car ever since. My father is still alive, and doesn’t drive.

I discovered today that when she renewed her car insurance earlier this year, she deliberately concealed a medical condition. She has been undergoing treatment for macular degeneration for a year.

She’s just acquired a new (to her) car, which arrives next week, and because she goes to pieces when she has to deal with any kind of call centre, I called up on her behalf to ask for her insurance to be adjusted. After I’d made the call, she said, “you didn’t mention my macular degeneration did you?”

I was furious with her. She thinks that everything is ok because she had an eye test at the optician earlier this year, after she’d renewed the insurance having failed to disclose her eye condition, and the optician pronounced her fit to drive.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve had it out with her today and explained to her that she has invalidated her car insurance by concealing her condition. If she crashes her car, no insurance but worse still, if she hits somebody else and injures or kills them, her insurance won’t cover them. I think that she’s committing fraud, as well as being selfish and irresponsible.

None of this cuts any ice with my mother: her response is, “stop going on about it” and when that fails, “you’re really upsetting me now and I can’t cope with the stress at my age”.

She’s worried that her car insurance will go up, but my view is that if you want to carry on driving in your eighties, you need to pay the appropriate car insurance premium. She can’t understand why her premium is almost £1,000 even without disclosing her eye condition. The answer, of course, is that old people have more accidents.

What would you do?

A: tell her that if she doesn’t call her insurers and disclose her condition, I will.

B: leave well alone, on the grounds that she is an adult who can make her own decisions and take her own risks.

(The problem with B, of course, is that it’s not just herself she is putting at risk).

I think she genuinely believes that if she’s in a crash she could just cry a bit and a kind policeman would pat her on the shoulder and make it all go away for the sweet old lady.

An elderly lady did this to me after she drove into my car. She then got quite shirty when I tried to get her details and drove off.

I realise the loss of independence is awful and I wish we could try and address it as a society and put more in place for people to get about but she could have killed my kids! She just couldn’t see that though, she just thought I making a nuisance.

Next-door neighbour suffered from diminishing eye sight.
His car was into the respray shop each month to touch up the dents and scrapes.
Eventually even he had to admit that he couldn't see enough to drive.
What a relief to all on the road.
You have to stop your mum before she does some real damage / injury.

Her eyesight is fine: confirmed by an optician.

The problem is that she should have notified the DVLA of her macular degeneration, so that they can make sure that she’s tested regularly. By not doing so, she has invalidated her car insurance. That’s the problem; she’s not weaving all over the road and mounting pavements.

Not yet. If she declares her condition to the DVLA, and it looks as if I’ll have to since she won’t, they can catch her before she becomes dangerous.

It sounds likely that DM is scared she will lose her independence and using anger and insults to try and deflect you from your cause.

Yes, I thought that too. I imagine that a diagnosis of macular degeneration is quite frightening and distressing and I’m not sure I would handle it well.

The good news is that she can still drive safely. The bad news is that it seems likely to degenerate (if the name is anything to go by) and she faces giving up her car sometime in the future. Nevertheless, she needs to find a way to manage her fear and meet her responsibilities.

I like the idea from a PP: fill in the DVLA form for her and watch her sign it, then post it. That way you’ll know she’s done it. And maybe also talk to her about the prognosis, because it sounds like there is treatment available and it could be a long time before she has to stop driving.

Treatment depends on what kind of AMD she has. If she has dry macular there is no treatment, but the good news is that it won’t make her blind. If she has wet macular there is treatment, which can slow or potentially stop the damage. If left to its own devices wet macular will result in blindness, or as near as. There are strict criteria for wet mac treatment on the NHS, basically you you already have to have one knackered eye and they will try to save the other, or something like that. You can get private treatment however. I have no idea how much it is now but a few years ago it was something like £125 per treatment and she would need several.

I used to work at a local blind association showing people resources to aid daily living. The amount of people we would have in who could barely see letters 6 inches high, then they would go out and get in their cars and drive home. You would be surprised at the amount of people driving around who have sight loss but who don’t bother to take the appropriate action to protect themselves and others because they don’t want to lose their independence. Entirely irresponsible imo, especially as I am a blind person who uses a white stick to get around, and the thought that there are people driving round who can’t see much more than me, who wouldn’t see me either, is bloody scary. I rather enjoy my independence too, independence that I won’t have if some bugger knocks me over because they can’t see me.

The DVLA should be informed. They will probably want to run extra tests to be sure her eyesight is adequate. They don’t always accept the word of a medical professional and like to double check. Some medical professionals don’t always like to break the bad news about not driving. Hopefully it will be fine, probably entailing more frequent eye tests in the future but that’s not a bad thing

Update: bloody hell, this is a nightmare.

A family member called me on Tuesday, crying and begging me not to report my mother to the DVLA. Reason: “they [my parents] can’t take much more of this stress” and “you’ll regret it after she’s dead and then you won’t be able to put it right”

In this person’s opinion, my mother is being very foolish but it’s her choice to be foolish, and it’s nobody else’s business.

I don’t agree. I’m due to take my parents away for a few days this weekend, but I waited for them to contact me; I’m certainly not going to hand out treats for bad behaviour.

I told them that we’d be going on the trip as soon as my mother gave me a commitment to sign the DVLA form, which I’d be bringing with me to their house at the start of the trip and which I expected her to sign before I posted it.

Cue tears, guilt tripping (“we’re reliant on that car! In an emergency we’ve got nobody! What if your father walks to the paper shop and slips on ice? My friends’ daughters visit them every day! All of this is really upsetting us and you’ll finish us off, you’ll give me a heart attack!”) and denial (she’s now claiming that her macular degeneration has ‘gone away’ and continues to deny that her insurance could possibly be invalid).

She also said that if I reported her to the DVLA, then neither she nor my father would ever want to see me again. Empty threat.

She also told me that everybody else in the family thinks that I am horrible. Including my wimpish brother and sister, who would run a mile from any kind of difficult conversation and are now sympathising with my mother, having successfully swerved doing the dirty work.

I think that she’s probably exhausted all her ammunition now, but I’ve told her that if I show up and she refuses to sign that DVLA form, then instead of taking them on holiday I’ll turn around and drive home.

Her response: “I’ll think about it”.

It’s worse than having a rebellious teenager. Tell me that it gets easier.

It sounds a nightmare for you but you should stand firm on this.
Also if she told you she has contacted them to report - can you believe her ?

I think you are handling this really well OP, and I feel for you. I worry about this with my parents when they get older as they are both very stubborn.

Thanks.

If my mother called me and said, “I’ve just reported my macular degeneration to the DVLA” I wouldn’t believe her. Not a chance. If she pulls that one I’ll say, “great, let’s submit the form anyway, then there’s no chance of any confusion, is there?”

It’s horrible though, being told that you’re putting your parents’ health at risk by audaciously asking them to do the right thing. I shouldn’t feel guilty, but I do.

You're doing really well. I've been in a similar position and it's shit! My parents' friends apparently all have daughters who are wonderful . (My brother never receives this pie on the sly comparative bollocks from them).

Well done for staying firm in such a difficult situation.

On the sly?

In the sky!!!

Having dealt with a very recalcitrant father, I have to tell you that the more you treat her like a child the worse it will get.

I’m certainly not going to hand out treats for bad behaviour is just an awful thing to say. She’s not a naughty child and I can tell you for nothing that it won’t go well for you if you persist in treating her like one.

What will happen is that she’ll stop telling you anything. I’m in no way defending her actions which are deeply irresponsible but if you want to get anywhere with her you’re going to adjust your attitude. I wouldn’t have anything to do with someone who treated me like a child.

Inform the DVLA confidentially.

My mother’s elderly neighbour was a terrible driver. Whenever she got her car out to drive into the village she’d leave a trail of smashed car mirrors on the way in and on the way back.

I was always appalled to hear about this on my visits but it was treated like amusing local gossip in my mother’s friendship group. “How will she get out to do her errands? You can’t take her independence away!”

Until the day the neighbour crashed through my mother’s fence drove over her roses and nearly demolished part of the house. 😬

It’s not about the person with the eye problem, it’s about all other road users and pedestrians.
A driving licence is a privilege, not a right.

Butt out @Transitory73

You said yourself the optician pronounced her fit to drive

A professional has given their opinion regarding her fitness to drive.

Your opinion isn’t valid, unless you are a medical / ophthalmic person and you have examined her yourself.

Butt out, she’s been examined and passed as fit to drive by a professional.

Whatever your opinion of her condition, it’s not seen by a professional as precluding her ability to drive, and therefore her insurance is valid.

Oh dear, have you read any of this thread? Even if the optician has pronounced her fit to drive, she still needs to inform the DVLA. Because that is the law, and because if she doesn’t inform the DVLA of her notifiable condition she’s not only driving illegally, she’s invalidating her insurance.

You don’t need to be a ‘medical ophthalmic person’ to know that.

Are you an insurance expert, @NellGwynsPenguin? I suspect not. Some earlier posters are, and they have given me an informed view that is quite different to yours.

@NellGwynsPenguin

The whole point of MD being a disclosable condition is that it has to be well managed and monitored, so the DVLA asks for it to be disclosed so that they can take a closer interest if they choose to, or follow up with questions. In doing so, the DVLA are discharging their responsibility to ensure that licensing keeps everyone safe. Of course if you legally have to disclose something to the DVLA, you should.

What is your problem with someone trying to ensure that their elderly parents meet their legal responsibilities?

if you want to get anywhere with her you’re going to adjust your attitude. I wouldn’t have anything to do with someone who treated me like a child.

Except I haven’t treated her like a child. I’ve tried calm reasoning, gentle encouragement and logic. What happened? She refused to engage with the problem, chanted ‘drop it, drop it!’ and deployed anger and guilt tripping. So I told them that the weekend away wouldn’t be happening if she didn’t do the right thing. If her perceived right to drive illegally with invalid insurance is more important to her than a family trip, or her relationship with her daughter, then that’s her call.

She did the same with other family members: fobbed them off with “I’ll think about it”, then went on her own merry way.

Let’s hear your solution.

I think it's the mum who's behaving like a child.

"I can't let you drive without a valid driving licence, you say it's not a problem, so they'll tell you that in writing and everything with be fine. We're just box ticking to be legal and insured"

I think you're approaching it like they'll take away her licence, change tack and agree she'll be fine but they need notifying.

Has she got it in one eye or both?

She only needs to notify the DVLA if she has it in both eyes. If she has it in one eye and can pass the eye test to drive she doesn't need to tell them.

Check her insurance documents but she probably only needs to declare the condition to them if it is one that has to be notified to the DVLA or if she has been advised not to drive.

Respect for dealing with this - so many people turn a blind eye (for want of a better phrase) Difficult conversations are just that - but if everyone behaved Responsibly like you we’d have a lot less instances elderly accidents.

I'd prob contact the optician. Tell them the background. Ask them if they can call your mum in for a test. Obviously they cannot give out any details to you however. Attend the test with your mother???