Elderly mother fibbing on car insurance

[Transitory73]

I think that I’m in the right, but would appreciate some insight.

(I’ve namechanged for this).

My mother is 86. She learned to drive in her fifties, and has had a car ever since. My father is still alive, and doesn’t drive.

I discovered today that when she renewed her car insurance earlier this year, she deliberately concealed a medical condition. She has been undergoing treatment for macular degeneration for a year.

She’s just acquired a new (to her) car, which arrives next week, and because she goes to pieces when she has to deal with any kind of call centre, I called up on her behalf to ask for her insurance to be adjusted. After I’d made the call, she said, “you didn’t mention my macular degeneration did you?”

I was furious with her. She thinks that everything is ok because she had an eye test at the optician earlier this year, after she’d renewed the insurance having failed to disclose her eye condition, and the optician pronounced her fit to drive.

I don’t know what to do. I’ve had it out with her today and explained to her that she has invalidated her car insurance by concealing her condition. If she crashes her car, no insurance but worse still, if she hits somebody else and injures or kills them, her insurance won’t cover them. I think that she’s committing fraud, as well as being selfish and irresponsible.

None of this cuts any ice with my mother: her response is, “stop going on about it” and when that fails, “you’re really upsetting me now and I can’t cope with the stress at my age”.

She’s worried that her car insurance will go up, but my view is that if you want to carry on driving in your eighties, you need to pay the appropriate car insurance premium. She can’t understand why her premium is almost £1,000 even without disclosing her eye condition. The answer, of course, is that old people have more accidents.

What would you do?

A: tell her that if she doesn’t call her insurers and disclose her condition, I will.

B: leave well alone, on the grounds that she is an adult who can make her own decisions and take her own risks.

(The problem with B, of course, is that it’s not just herself she is putting at risk).

So the optician declared her fit to drive? I would assume ok then. However the Christmas bin lorry incident means caution when driving with a medical condition that could affect toad safety.

Sounds like official advice and clarity are needed. I would check what the DVLA rules are, I assume what VinylDetective quoted. Then work out if she is ok or not. You could always confirm in writing to be sure.

I don't know about eyes, but dh does assessments that include fitness to drive. He is very clear if somebody cannot drive and documents it. As much to cover his own liability.

Definitely option A. Even if she didn’t hurt anyone in an accident, imagine knowing that you couldn’t get your car repairs done because the person who’s hit you doesn’t have insurance.

Do you genuinely believe that the optician said she was OK to drive - or is that her telling porkies?

This isn't something that's likely to increase her premiums, all the car insurer cares about is that the DVLA have declared her fit to drive. Unfortunately in your mums case they can't do this because they aren't in possession of all the facts, so she's driving illegally.

However, I've worked in car insurance. If your mum was to have a crash and it was her fault, whoever she hit wouldn't be penalised by having their claim declined. Your mums insurance company would still cover their costs and then more than likely cancel her policy, as well as declining to cover any of her damage. Having an insurance policy cancelled can basically blacklist you from getting a new policy with anyone else, which would mean she couldn't drive legally again, at least for a while.

I'd suggest she contacts the DVLA as soon as possible to declare the condition. Changes are if an optician has said her sight is adequate then the DVLA will accept this, but they may insist on regular check-ups going forwards

Just read the other posts. So she is ok to drive but has to declare it.

So I guess her premium may increase, or maybe she needs a specialist insurer, or she might have restrictions imposed on her.

I agree it needs sorting.

Macular degeneration can take years to reach the point of affecting vision to drive

I would keep on at her to inform the insurer

I mean, she is basically throwing £1k away on insurance that will never pay out because she has invalidated it by not disclosing her condition. She might as well just drive completely uninsured. If you put it to her like that - "well mum I'm just going to ring up and cancel your insurance because you have already invalidated it" - maybe she'll realise what she's doing.

Why dont you do a comparison site quote based on her details including the medical condition to see how much it adds to the cost, at least then if it's not loads she might be more easily convinced to declare it herself

Are you OK with the possibility of her killing someone due to her vision issues (I would not trust what she says the optician says)? If not, then A.

If you have a sight condition, even if your optician has passed her as fit to drive, you have to declare it. As my elderly father does. He has to fill in forms, they consult his consultant etc.

He can be bothered to do that. He jumps through the hoops. He puts in the time to do it. He doesn't say he is too old. He doesn't say that he can't cope with the stress of thinking about it because he is too old.
He wouldn't want someone to not have the treatment and help they needed because he couldn't be bothered.
It's not your fault, OP, but your mother's attitude suggests she simply doesn't have as much respect for other people as human beings.
My father is older than your mother.
He wouldn't put me in the position you are in. I feel furious with you mother for putting you in this position. I feel she is showing contempt to the people like my Dad who are doing the right thing.
She asked you lie about something important - I think she has given up any right to expect you to tell the truth to her about this, if you want to claim it wasn't you who told her, you would be morally excused in doing so. Maybe the receiver wasn't quite back on the cradle when spoke about the macular degeneration at the end of the call.
If she is liable for medical care for someone with sever, spinal injuries in an accident in which she was uninsured, would they have to sell their home to meet her liabilities? If she doesn't care about other people, would this sway her?
I'm so sorry for you, OP.

She is being so very cruel to you with this and so callous to other people.

If your mum was to have a crash and it was her fault, whoever she hit wouldn't be penalised by having their claim declined. Your mums insurance company would still cover their costs and then more than likely cancel her policy, as well as declining to cover any of her damage

This is correct with one added point in that the insurer will cover the costs of the innocent party, but they have the right to recover those payments from the policyholder. This can, and has, happened. She risks losing any assets to cover any payments made on her behalf.

Why did she bother paying all that money for invalid insurance? I don't see the logic.
So option A, all day long.

They won't up the premium, they will probably cancel the policy if her eyesight is deemed to be bad enough. You need to do the right thing before someone is killed. Upsetting your Mum would then be the least of your worries

To be callous to your mother, if you chose option A you might have to live with her being furious with you for the rest of her life. So 10 years ish most likely.
If you choose option b you have to live with yourself for the rest of your life, which I hope will be a long one.

Can you speak to her optician to confirm she can drive safely?
That would be my first step in your shoes.
If they say no - tell them why you're asking if necessary - then you do need to stop her driving if she won't voluntarily.
If she is permitted to drive, tell her she either tells the insurance company or you will.

You will be terrified of this every single day, even if nothing happens.

Option A. If your mum were to have an accident it's very often the driver's partner that is injured in these incidents when doing something that seems totally mundane and routine such as backing out of the drive. For the sake of both your parents it needs to be reported.

She is breaking the law and this will invalidate her insurance and her driving licence. She shouldn’t be driving and a risk to everyone.

I can't speak for all insurers but I work in motor insurance and you don't need to declare any conditions to us if the DVLA and your GP deem you fit to drive, then it's none of our business.

However, I'd take a look here. Sounds like she might still need to declare it to the DVLA -

www.gov.uk/macular-degeneration-and-driving

@QuitMoaning

If your mum was to have a crash and it was her fault, whoever she hit wouldn't be penalised by having their claim declined. Your mums insurance company would still cover their costs and then more than likely cancel her policy, as well as declining to cover any of her damage

This is correct with one added point in that the insurer will cover the costs of the innocent party, but they have the right to recover those payments from the policyholder. This can, and has, happened. She risks losing any assets to cover any payments made on her behalf.

The insurer would not necessarily have an automatic right to make a recovery. It would depend on the insurer seeking a statutory declaration of the voidance, and possibly assignment agreements being signed by any third party claimants.

However, most insurers are now seeking the stat dec in cases that they think are going to cost them more than the £1K that the court/solicitors would to get the declaration.

Your mother can also be fined up to £1000 for not declaring her condition to the DVLA.

If the optician has declared her fit to drive I think the insurance company would have a hard time getting out of a claim on those grounds.

I also think that DVLA would be unlikely to take away the licence of a driver on bad vision grounds if the optician says she is fit to drive.

Macular degeneration can mean anything from a slight reduction of vision in one eye to severe loss of sight in both eyes. Her optician will have a better idea of the situation than a load of randoms on an internet forum.

OP. I feel your pain. I had something very similar and it is too personal to deal with face to face.

What you can do, is get the GP involved. They will be more dispassionate than you. You can always phone a GP if you are concerned about someone. The GP might agree to have your mum in for some other reason or could just directly talk about the eyesight issue. The GP won't be obliged to tell you mum that you contacted him/her but the GP IS obliged to phone DVLA if there is a health issue which will affect the issuing or the licence.

A.
Can you live with yourself if she has a crash and hurts or kills someone?
Or what if she only hurts or kills herself, will you be OK with the knowledge that you could have done something?
Or even if she never has an accident will you rest easy knowing she's out there driving, potentially a risk to herself and others?
I couldn't live with it. At the very least inform the dvla and her insurers and let them decide if she's fit to drive.