Pc Andrews law - automatically give the killers of hero's 20 years with no early release

[pctmmn]

Seems like a good idea to me, I hope his mum and wife manage to get it pushed through parlement.

Anyone that kills a police/nurse/army worker should get a guaranteed long term as these people put their lives on the risk for society and some of the sentences are a joke

mandatory minimum sentencing laws don't take anything into account about how and why a crime was committed.

And it places more value on some people's lives over others. And that is why it took so long for the Yorkshire Ripper to be found - it was only a bunch of prossies, who cares? right?

@Brefugee

mandatory minimum sentencing laws don't take anything into account about how and why a crime was committed.

And it places more value on some people's lives over others. And that is why it took so long for the Yorkshire Ripper to be found - it was only a bunch of prossies, who cares? right?

That was 1970's misogyny though and police incompetence. Nothing to do with higher sentences for those that murder police officers in cold blood in the line of duty.

It's an awful idea, what if the killer was mentally ill or in some other way extremely vulnerable. Each case needs to be tried on individual merit and an appropriate sentence delivered.

YABVU. Bootlicker.

That was 1970's misogyny though and police incompetence. if they had been middle class lawyer's wives there would have been a much better investigation from the start. The investigation picked up when it was shown that one of the later victims wasn't a prostitute. It absolutely balanced the "value" (low in this case) of prostitutes lives against other women.

Sure, it was only women and the 70s - i was a teenager at the time, i well remember what it was like back then.

@julybaby32

So I think the number of children may already be taken into account in some ways.

I don't like the idea that my life is worth less than someone else's because I don't have kids. It's enough that other people, predominantly women, find it weird and my life incomplete. I don't need judges to reinforce that.

@Brefugee

That was 1970's misogyny though and police incompetence. if they had been middle class lawyer's wives there would have been a much better investigation from the start. The investigation picked up when it was shown that one of the later victims wasn't a prostitute. It absolutely balanced the "value" (low in this case) of prostitutes lives against other women.

Sure, it was only women and the 70s - i was a teenager at the time, i well remember what it was like back then.

Completely agree. I think men that kill prostitutes should get maximum sentences too.

Number of children shouldn't be taken into account either.

That's absolutely horrific.

I'm not worth any more than someone with less kids than me

@julybaby32

To be fair, it may not be part of the official sentencing procedure, but when crimes or other deaths are reported in the press, the number of children the dead person had is often used as a measure of the severity of the crime.

The remit of the press is to sell papers/advertising. They will naturally focus on the aspects of a crime that they feel will most engage/shock/upset readers. Children losing a parent is upsetting even if the parent has died a natural death; so it isn't surprising that this aspect in a murder case should be emphasised in the press.

That has nothing to do with sentencing, and I don't think even the press are trying to suggest the crime is worse if children are in the question. A higher number of people might be strongly impacted by it, but that doesn't increase the severity of the crime.

Can we also have a law that makes sure police officers who murder people in custody are held to account? 240 people dead in police custody since 2015 and no one held to account!

Not offering in opinion on the rights/wrongs of the proposal to change the law, but prison officers would need to be added to this proposal. They are working with convicted criminals every minute of their working life.

I speak as an armed response officer’s wife. He walks towards danger when others walk away. That it his job, what he is paid to do, and what he loves to do. The loss of his life would cause the same amount of damage to me, and his family, that would be caused to every other family of a carelessly destroyed life. It matters not what he does for a living, although I am extremely proud of that, but who he is to those that know him. That makes his life no different to anyone else’s. We all matter to someone.

@Earthgirlsareeasy
Well said. You are right to be proud of your DH too.

I'm not sure I agree fully with it but I do agree killing/injuring a police officer while in the course of their duties is worth a higher sentence. Not because that individual's life is more important but because as a society we need to respect their authority and deterrents need to be higher.

Para 4 of Sch 21 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003
“4(1)If—

(a)the court considers that the seriousness of the offence (or the combination of the offence and one or more offences associated with it) is exceptionally high, and

(b)the offender was aged 21 or over when he committed the offence,

the appropriate starting point is a whole life order.
(2)Cases that would normally fall within sub-paragraph (1)(a) include—

(a)the murder of two or more persons, where each murder involves any of the following—

(i)a substantial degree of premeditation or planning,

(ii)the abduction of the victim, or

(iii)sexual or sadistic conduct,

(b)the murder of a child if involving the abduction of the child or sexual or sadistic motivation,

[F1(ba)the murder of a police officer or prison officer in the course of his or her duty,]

(c)a murder done for the purpose of advancing a political, religious [F2, racial] or ideological cause, or

(d)a murder by an offender previously convicted of murder.”

schrodingersimmigrant I don't like the fact that someone thinks my life is worth less because I have not children either. I have had people say it directly to my face though, on occasion. (In one case the actual words were "it doesn't matter if you die, because you're not a mother" while I was sitting waiting to find out if I had breast cancer or not. The other person started that conversation and demanded to know if I had kids.)
Like it or not, I have to accept that not having children renders me of less or no value in some people's eyes though. I refuse to believe that someone else is of less value because they don't have children though.

The sort of petition that's set up and signed by people with not very high intelligence. My father was a police officer. I feel sensitive to such issues. I don't agree with this petition.

@StoneofDestiny
If you look at the section of the CJA 2003 I’ve posted above, prison officers are covered. Murder of a prison officer in the course of their duties by an offender over 21 has a whole life term as the starting point.

Thanks Chaz.

Sentencing guidelines already include “offence is committed against those working in the public sector or providing a service to the public;“ as an aggravating factor. I think that’s sufficient. You do get advocates arguing that “bouncers” count though which is I think taking it a bit far tbh.

But I do think there is merit in what she says. Not sure about the length of sentence but I do think it should be pretty severe

Why, @NannyOgg? It is already the law that, for anybody aged 21 or over convicted of murder of a police officer or prison officer in the course of their duty, the starting point for sentencing is a “whole life order” - i.e. life in prison without parole. Why do we need another law saying basically the same thing?

I understand the impulse, but I disagree. We already have laws that cover this and new laws should never be created for emotional reasons anyway.

Are the narwhal tusk & extinguisher lads now considered heroes too, of god forbid something happened to them? What about all the civilians helping in Manchester bombing? Would they then fall into the category or do you need to wear a uniform to prove the heroic thing? There are thousands of heroes who are civilians. I have great respect for all emergency services, but the petition is just wrong

Thank you. I think you get it 👍

No. You both missed it. Putting people on pedestals and declaring them all hero's who deserve anything more than the general population is a slippery slope. There are no hero's. There are people who do the jobs they choose to do, and most of them are not evil or bad. But some of them are, just like everywhere else in life. Nobody's life is worth more because of what they do. All lives should be equally valued. And nobody should take a life. Any life.

It's a moronically stupid unenforceable idea