Pc Andrews law - automatically give the killers of hero's 20 years with no early release

[pctmmn]

Seems like a good idea to me, I hope his mum and wife manage to get it pushed through parlement.

Anyone that kills a police/nurse/army worker should get a guaranteed long term as these people put their lives on the risk for society and some of the sentences are a joke

i) the whole life tariff for murder of a police officer only applies to over 21 so it would never have applied in this case.

ii) the jury who heard all the evidence and legal argument acquitted them of murder

I understand the sentiment but everyone who murders anyone should be sent away for 25 years. The victims family doesn't hurt more because they wore a uniform than someone who doesn't.

It doesn't appear that Mrs Harper is aware that, for anybody aged 21 or over convicted of murder of a police officer or prison officer in the course of their duty, the law already provides a starting point of a “whole life order” - i.e. life in prison without parole. That has some odd results; for instance, if someone throws a single punch, not intending to cause injury but resulting in a police officer banging his head and dying (which would be manslaughter), they would get a whole life order; however, someone who intentionally stabs a victim to death would get a minimum term of 25 years. Is that a fair outcome?

No. There shouldn't be such a thing as the 'worthy' murder / manslaughter victim. All victims are victims.

"GladAllOver
I think there is a valid argument that those who deliberately face danger for the public good should be protected by a greater deterrent to deliberate harm. That is not the same as saying their lives are worth more.
Thank you. I think you get"

Erm. No. ALL victims should be protected by greater deterrents if that's the case. Not just one group.

I do hate this tendency to say that people are heroes purely by virtue of the fact that they earn their living as police officers, nurses, soldiers etc. Is Derek Chauvin a hero? Are the police officers who get chucked out due to involvement in serious crime heroes? Was Beverley Allitt a heroine?

Is this simply revenge, or do you think the difference between the current life sentence and a mandatory 20 years would make a difference?

There wasn’t much heroic about Harold Shipman

@pctmmn so what’s you’re opinion now you’ve read @maxelly ‘s link?

The entire premise of someone being "a hero" because of the job they do is frankly a lot of pish.
Maybe pay them properly instead of turning their job into a cheesy slogan.
Police kill more people than people kill police.

Why does the OP refer to “PC Andrew”, I thought this case was about PC Harper ?

I disagree but I do think that anyone who kills a Police Officer while committing a crime should get a life sentence

@Hoppinggreen

I disagree but I do think that anyone who kills a Police Officer while committing a crime should get a life sentence

They already do, if they're over 21. See my post above.

I am interested, OP, in why you think that someone who killed a nurse in the course of her duties would deserve a longer sentence than someone who killed a doctor in the course of her duties? What about teachers, some of whom have been killed in the course of the work? You could say that that is because they don't wear uniform, but what about school crossing patrols - and would it be different if the killer was a parent of schoolchild? The don't actually have a uniform as such but are clearly identifiable.

I'm not having a go at you OP, I just want to know exactly why you think, for example why the life of a nurse working in And E should be legally more valued that that of a doctor, or receptionist working in exactly the same place, the same age, etc. Both of them are working for the public good and both of them could be at the same risk.

Lost me a bit at ‘hero’s’. How would we define that? Sentencing for killing anyone should be tough, but not based on public emotion, especially where this is whipped up by tabloids and social media.

No. It's the deed of murder that's being punished, not the degree of the loss to society.

Leaving that aside, there are plenty of everyday 'heroes' in jobs that aren't commonly lauded - it's impossible to value one life more highly than another in any way that could be meaningfully applied to law.

The circumstances of the murder may have a bearing on culpability and this is already reflected in sentencing, but that's really an aside from the character of the victim.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

i) the whole life tariff for murder of a police officer only applies to over 21 so it would never have applied in this case.

ii) the jury who heard all the evidence and legal argument acquitted them of murder

Wasn't that one of the things his mum was arguing?

That at 18/19 he could do x y and z as an adult but legal standing at 21 makes a distinction that otherwise doesn't exist elsewhere?

Brilliant post above too btw. Totally agree it's you on both posts.

Or if you are going to be picky about it, imagine a nurse and a doctor working along side each other in A and E. Both are killed by someone who comes in looking to to finish off a patient they have attempted to kill. Nurse and doctor both die protecting their patient.
The mothers of both women are standing before you. Explain to the mother of the doctor why her daughter's life deserved less protection.
Do you think it will actually help the mother of the nurse who has also lost a daughter?

It's the deed of murder that's being punished, not the degree of the loss to society.

Exactly! Would we then punish based on perceived value of the victim?
How much tax they paid?
Parent of 6 has higher or lower value than parent of 1?
Poor victim vs rich victim?
Employer vs employee?
Citizen vs non citizen?

They all have different value to society, but they shouldn't have a radically different value when it comes to justice.

A better argument would be for the sentences to be increased for the killing of someone in the line of their job.

I agree this would be a better approach. The job someone does doesn't make their life mean more than others. Nor does it make them a hero.

But if they are killed like PC Harper, for doing their job, trying to stop a crime being committed, then yes the sentence should be harsher.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

Person has a heavy night in the pub drinks far too much, gets in their car. On the way home they lose control crash into a police car and kill a police officer - 20 years seems reasonable But Couple drive to a country pub, the passenger drinks over the limit but the driver doesn’t. On the way back the driver gets a severe asthma attack. It will take an ambulance 20 mins to reach them and their medication isn’t helping. The passenger decides to drive to the nearest hospital. Due to the combination of panic over the driver’s worsening health and drink they misjudge a turning hit a police car and kill the occupant. - Does an automatic 20 years seem quite as right for this one?

Yes. Every time. 100%. There is no mitigation for driving while drunk, even if it is a made up scenario.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

It’s either because laws that are campaigned for because a specific victim’s death (Sarah’s, Clare’s) have a pattern of taking the victim’s first name, or it’s because some people have a mawkish need to be overly intimate with someone else’s tragedy.

In this case, I do think it’s the former.

I agree with majority here.

This petition is made from an emotional reaction. The law should be free from emotion and work entirely on facts.

How do we define a hero? Do we start looking at murder victims jobs, then what they do outside of jobs, have character references, look at facebook posts... where does it end.

Then when we start categorizing people as more worthy of justice, that means we are categorizing others as less worthy of justice.

It's PC Andrew Harper, not PC Andrews. At the very least people should get his name right. OP and another poster have called him Andrews

I think OP got it mixed up because it would be called Andrew's law. I guess the apostrophe got lost on a way and went to hero instead.