Pc Andrews law - automatically give the killers of hero's 20 years with no early release

[pctmmn]

Seems like a good idea to me, I hope his mum and wife manage to get it pushed through parlement.

Anyone that kills a police/nurse/army worker should get a guaranteed long term as these people put their lives on the risk for society and some of the sentences are a joke

I think our system of examining things on a case by case basis works better. If we don't want judges to make judgments what is the point of having them.

I can see where they are coming from.

But it's not as simplistic as they are making it.

This is a difficult case because it was dismissed as murder - therefore deliberate attempt to take his life - but guilty at manslughter.

That carries a lower sentence generally.

Mix that in with the fact the defendants showed no remorse and were career criminals adds all sorts of emotion to an already complex case - which is further emotionally fuelled by the fact he was a newly wed.

I totally agree that someone's job title shouldn't make sentences higher automatically.
But ironically usually crimes towards police are taken more seriously anyway and tried at a higher level.

We cannot have a one size fits all justice system. It removes too much of the justice.

What we need is a better funded policing system with a far better prison system and a tougher judicial system with a higher emphasis on rehabilitation earlier on in the lives of criminals.

Thank you for posting that maxelly, I wasn’t aware of that.

@SimonJT

No life is worth more than another.

If you support this you also support murder victims in the wrong job not being able to access the same level of justice. “Sorry Mr and Mrs Smith, your daughter was a teacher so she her killers don’t have to spend as much time in prison”.

Agreed and teachers have been murdered in the UK by their pupils, Anne Maguire and Phillip Lawrence spring to mind immediately, they and their families deserve a different, lesser standard of justice?

It's important to differentiate between mandatory life sentence and whole life order. Also between murder and manslaughter. I think problem is that most general public can't

@MoistMolly

Makes me wonder how many posters on this thread would expect a non hero police officer to put their own life on the line to stop a terrorist stabbing their child

If someone is a hero, it is because of their actions, not because of their job title. You aren't a hero simply because you are a police officer. A police officer who put their life on the line to save my child would of course be a hero in my eyes. But so would any other person who did so, whether they were a builder, banker, barista or barrister.

If anyone is curious about how the judgements for various crimes are decided, you can have a look at sentencing guidelines.

@MoistMolly

Makes me wonder how many posters on this thread would expect a non hero police officer to put their own life on the line to stop a terrorist stabbing their child

Plenty of civilians have done that.

Look at the Philip Lawrence murder. Was he less brave, his life not as important?

Not every one in a uniform is a 'hero' and no life is worth more than another.
So YABVU. Sorry. Each case should be considered individually, however horrific.
There are obvious dangers to joining the police, and obvious benefits, and each person who wants to join weighs those up. Horrible tho it is that he was killed, it's still rare for police in the UK to be killed in the line of duty (I'm excluding the RUC for obvious reasons).
So rare in fact I could probably name everyone of them from the last 20 years.

Are police/nurse/army workers the only heroes? What about fire fighters, paramedics, doctors, social workers, carers, charity workers? How about all Key Workers during the pandemic?

Where does the list end and what makes their lives worth more than other people's?

Heroes are defined by their actions not their status or uniform, there are plenty of men and women in uniform now who are the antithesis of 'hero'.
And there are genuine heroes both in uniform/services and 'ordinary' people.

Number of signatures does not a sensible petition make.

Pay frontline workers better, sure.

But they don't automatically get 'hero' status because they choose one career over another. Hero status is a cringe-inducing social media construct.

@MoistMolly

So much whataboutery on this thread. How many teachers, office workers, retail workers, etc, risk being stabbed, shot, and assaulted just while they try and do their job?

Anything dangerous in most other careers should be minimised through proper health and safety. Front line emergency workers often don't have that luxury.

This report says that nearly one in four teachers are physically attacked once a week:

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/teachers-pupils-violence-classroom-behaviour-nasuwt-teaching-union-a8877776.html

We don't live in a black and white world, this is over simplifying and lacks nuance.

the people signing that petition are confusing 'revenge' with 'justice'

revenge AND justice

Those that work in the law and government should draft the necessary laws, debate them and then present them to parliament. Which I think is what already happens.

So if 2 people are stabbed, 1 being a police officer and the other somebody just going about their daily life, how do you explain to the 2nd family that their loved one's murder is not as worthy as the the police officer's? Why is 1 person's life worth more than another's based on their job?

@Magnetfisher revenge shouldn't be a factor in sentencing.
That's like capital punishment, killing someone who has killed someone to show that killing someone is wrong!

The plural of 'hero' is 'heroes'. Apostrophe incompetence aside, it's a childish and completely unworkable suggestion.

Simplistic and poorly thought out idea that comes across like one of those Sun or News of the World campaigns.

There should be no hierarchy based on your job description. Does your rank also come in to it? If you’re a Detective does that mean the killer gets more years than for Sergeant? Which job gets to be bottom? Cleaner? Parking Attendant?

Nope; every criminal charge and every court sentence should take full account of the circumstances.

.

What happened to PC Harper is horrific and I fully agree that very lengthy sentences are entirely justified. A young man lost his life in horrendous circumstances while doing his job and those responsible absolutely need to serve long sentences.

As someone has linked to, we have whole life terms available for those found guilty of murder and they are used. For example, Dale Cregan who was convicted of murdering PC Nicola Hughes and PC Fiona Bone, along with two other men.

I think the issue in this case is that the defendants have been convicted of manslaughter which carries a lesser sentence rather than murder. It no doubt comes down to whether the court can prove, beyond reasonable doubt that the defendants intended to kill PC Harper. To my mind, once they knew he was trapped and being dragged, the action of not stopping suggests murder but that is for the courts to decide.

I believe that Mrs Harper is appealing (if that is the correct word) for a retrial for murder and I hope that she is successful. Ultimately, nothing will bring back her husband and that is the worst part

Person has a heavy night in the pub drinks far too much, gets in their car. On the way home they lose control crash into a police car and kill a police officer - 20 years seems reasonable
But
Couple drive to a country pub, the passenger drinks over the limit but the driver doesn’t. On the way back the driver gets a severe asthma attack. It will take an ambulance 20 mins to reach them and their medication isn’t helping. The passenger decides to drive to the nearest hospital. Due to the combination of panic over the driver’s worsening health and drink they misjudge a turning hit a police car and kill the occupant. - Does an automatic 20 years seem quite as right for this one?

Imo, the driver should have got a whole life tariff!

As a driver myself, it is inconceivable to me that the driver did not feel the weight of PC Harper swinging about behind the car - imo, it was murder beyond reasonable doubt!