To want a 3rd child even though I already have 2 disabled children

[Fedupmum88]

I have two children with severe asd. I love them both dearly but it is hard work. Alongside the ASD they have a few health issues and sleep disorders. It is very unlikely that they will ever be able to live independently. AIBU to want a third child?

[JanMeyer]

My brother is a happy member of society and quite honestly I would rather be associated with a 100 like him that just 1 of some of the posters on here who have a vile attitude to disabled children and adults.

Well said.

[sweetkitty]

I work with children with severe autism and most of their siblings are also autistic. Their parents are very open and often say if they knew their DC1 was going to be so affected they wouldn’t have had DC2 even when their DC2 is NT, they feel their DC2 is so affected by their siblings behaviour it’s not fair on them. Sometimes it’s heartbreaking to listen to them.

[Alabamawhirly1]

Even if NT, the limits on their childhood will be enormous.

This is such a generalisation. Disability is a massive spectrum. There are also respite facilities, carers and support from family members.

What you think my kids can't go to a theme park, or swimming or go on holiday because their brother is disabled. We still do all those things with and without him.

And its not a given that typical children will look after disabled siblings. Who do you think looks after the child if they don't have siblings. I will never ask my children to be a carer for their brother. It's not their job.
Who else do you think will have that role then?

It's not a siblings job to look after adults with disabilities. It is the government's job to provide support to adults that can't live independently. If you have a problem with that raise it with the government.

[perfumeistooexpensive]

I’d definitely have another.

[x2boys]

Well Said @Alabamawhirley I have a child with autism and severe learning disabilities,he's non verbal etc ,I hate this idea that siblings have a miserable child hood because of it ,yes it's hard very hard at times ,but both my children are my world ,and I don't expect ds1 to be ds2 carer.

[JanMeyer]

My children are all SEN. Very high achieving and very bright. I had no idea until DD1 was 4. (medical SEN).

Your children are SEN? Or do they have SEN? No-one can be SEN anymore than someone can be ASD. I'm curious do you refer to them that way in real life? Would your children be ok with defining them that way? Also given that SEN stands for Special Educational Needs whats "medical SEN?"

[TakeASadSong]

Personally, no, not a chance in hell.
DS (my DC1) was diagnosed with autism shortly after our DC2 was born (NT). I’m not sure I’d have had a second if I had known.

Caring for DS - everything from getting his diagnosis, to fighting for his EHCP and DLA, getting him the right education and therapies, managing his challenging behaviour - has been tough, and I wouldn’t have it in me to do it all over again. It wouldn’t be fair to him or my DD either, stretching their parents even more thinly.

[HJ372]

Only if you're a millionaire.

[Fr0thandBubble]

I feel so sorry for you OP but I voted YABU. My first child has ASD and I thought very long and hard about whether I should have another so I know a little of how you must feel.

But if you already have 2 with ASD, the chances of the next having ASD are high (as I’m sure you already know). I don’t think it would be fair to have another - either for your existing children (who need all the attention and financial resources you have), for the potential third child (who, even if they don’t have ASD themselves, will have two severely disabled siblings which I think would be hard), to you (I can’t imagine how hard it would be to have three children with severe ASD) or for society (the cost of care for those with severe ASD usually runs into the millions).

But you are in an absolutely heartbreaking position and you have my utmost sympathy. If you decide to go ahead with it, I would recommend reading George and Sam by Charlotte Moore. She has two severely autistic boys and she went on to have a third boy who is NT. Interestingly, she says in the book that they saw a geneticist when deciding whether to have a third and were told they had a 5% chance of a third child having ASD. That was back in the 90s I believe - the chances they give now are much higher (our geneticist told us after our first that the chances of a second having ASD were between 5 and 25%, depending on whether it was a girl).

[gypsywater]

It's not a siblings job to look after adults with disabilities. It is the government's job to provide support to adults that can't live independently. If you have a problem with that raise it with the government

THIS. It is the responsibility of the state and there should be properly funded services in place to support.

[gypsywater]

@frOth
I dont think it's on the OP to be thinking about the financial cost to the state of her children with disabilities, tbh. That's a bit harsh.

[Sockmonster23]

I’m so sorry and really for you but I voted YABU. It would be so hard for everyone that I would give 100% to children I have in your situation.

[OnlyaMummy]

I wouldnt in your scenario. If the third also was not NT, it would make things more difficult and you would likely feel like you spread yourself too thin.

If the 3rd is NT, then you will always feel like they are not getting enough of your undivided attention and likely to feel mum guilt.

But anything is possible and you are the only one who knows what you can handle xx

[FortniteBoysMum]

I totally get it I have two boys ds1 has dyspraxia and probably mild ASD symptoms ds2 has ASD arfid OCD and ADHD. The OCD is new and takes all my spare time in itself. However I desperately want another but dp is not so keen on the idea. You can only decide what's best for you but the first thing to ask your self is do you have more good days than bad because at the moment I'm having more bad with ds2 and am not sure I would have the time for a third. Having said that we have a nice of 1 month and ds2 seems very good with her. She almost has a calming effect on him and I know he would want to help me lots which could benefit him if we did. How well your children cope with change needs to be considered but if you think you would all be good then go for it. You only regret the things you never did.

[LonginesPrime]

It's not a siblings job to look after adults with disabilities

It's not just when the DC are adults that a sibling's quasi-caring role comes into play, though.

Children and teenagers of SN siblings frequently have to put their own feelings to one side to focus on the needs of the SN child and they also have to contend with parents needing to do the same. This manifests in loads of ways, both big and small, on a daily basis.

I'm not saying it's all terrible for siblings of SN children and as PPs have pointed out, some of these siblings feel it was the making of them in terms of developing compassion, patience, etc.

But it would be unfair on a child not to at least acknowledge the additional demands placed on them during childhood and adolescence by having an SN sibling.

[x2boys]

Whilst I don't think the Op should have another child ,I try as do most parents of children with severe disabilities to make sure my other child doesn't miss out ,often Ds1 goes out with his Dad on their own or me so he gets 1:1 attention from us both ,I make sure he knows how much I love him ,he's brilliant of course it's hard for him but tbh he doesn't know any different ,it is what it is both my kids mean the world to me they just have very different needs .

[Bemorechicken]

@JanMeyer

My children are all SEN. Very high achieving and very bright. I had no idea until DD1 was 4. (medical SEN).

Your children are SEN? Or do they have SEN? No-one can be SEN anymore than someone can be ASD. I'm curious do you refer to them that way in real life? Would your children be ok with defining them that way? Also given that SEN stands for Special Educational Needs whats "medical SEN?"

All my children have SEN status. All have EHCPs. Excuse me, I'm dyslexic myself -so I apologise for any grammar/ spelling etc issues.

Medical SEN means they have a medical need as opposed to a behavioural SEN need, for example. But I didn't want to out my children so didn't want to do into details.

To quote:
Each special educational need has a unique impact on each child and young person. We have endeavoured to pull together our combined experience of each special educational need to give an indication of the likely impact and level of intervention that may be called for.

ADHD
Anxiety
Anorexia
Aphasia
Asperger’s syndrome
Auditory processing disorder
Autistic spectrum disorder
Behavioural difficulties- EBD, SEBD, SEMH
Brain Injury
Bulimia
Cancer
Cerebral atrophy
Cerebral palsy
Conduct disorder
Cystic fibrosis
Developmental delay
Down syndrome
Duane Syndrome
Dyscalculia
Dysgraphia
Dyslexia
Dyspraxia
Echolalia
Epilepsy
Fine and gross motor skill delay
Fragile X syndrome
Global developmental delay
Glue Ear
Hearing impairment
High-functioning autism
Irlen Syndrome
Hydrocephalus
Learning difficulties
Moderate learning difficulties
Multi-sensory impairment
Muscular dystrophy
Obsessive compulsive disorder
Oppositional defiant disorder
Pathological demand avoidance
Pervasive developmental disorder
Prader-Willi syndrome
Profound and multiple learning disability
Rett Syndrome
Semantic pragmatic disorder
Sensory processing disorder
Severe learning difficulties
Smith-Magenis syndrome
Spina bifida
Social anxiety disorder
Social skills difficulties
Sotos syndrome
SWAN
Tourette's syndrome
Visual impairment
Visual processing disorder
Worster-Drought syndrome


And that is not an exhaustive list.
Thus a child with ADHD has ADHD SEN. Some have multiple types, some have some that are non specific. My friend's child is autistic, another friend has a dyslexic diagnosis.

I'm not prepared to give more information about my children. But for example if one of them has spina bifida - and there are different types of spina bifia -they could present with varying degrees of SEN. It is a medical condition but could have learning implications and other aspects.
The SEN condition my children all have is genetic and medical. It means they struggle to do PE for example and can't stand for too long etc. The SEN condition that both all children have doesn't have an impact academic learning but is does physically. In our case. All have EHCPs and got them very quickly once diagnosis was in.

I don't know why you need to be so agressive @ JanMeyer.

Yes, my child know they have SEN. Yes, they know they have a medical condition but it effects them EVERY SINGLE DAY. But they know it DOES NOT DEFINE THEM. For example Eg They have a diagnosis of Spina Bifia -they can't move their lower limbs properly. So we do physio and swimming etc to help and support that and they don't do football tackling in PE. But they don't have other symptoms associated with Spina Bifia.

They don't -I'm using it as an example. They will always have their medical syndrome -there is no cure.

In real life -do I call them SEN -no I call them, Elizabeth, Grace and William. Do they know they have SEN? Yes, of course they bloody do. Their body doesn't do what another "typical" child can do. ie They can't run.
Their condition is not as obvious as you might think and looking at them playing in a park -you might think no issue at all. Then I would point it out to you and you would say "I can the issue" as you would then see it but as babies and toddlers it wasn't obvious. If my children run, alongside other children, they would trip and fall and hurt themselves and after 2 minutes they would still be at the start.

Having and fighting for SEN children is bloody hard at the best of time. Getting support is hardwork. I had to pay for private assessments for DC2 when they were young, as the NHS refused to see a problem. Once we had the diagnosis things moved quickly but it was a fight. DC2's yearly report came in today and it says "severe medical issues with this, and that and this, specialist care for 1 year but lifelong support will be needed" etc.

Does that clarify for you? Most parents with SEN Diagnosed children have a bad enough time of it without people jumping all over them like you have.

[Bemorechicken]

@JanMeyer to answer the other question "Are my children ok with my defining them as SEN?" I've just asked DD if she feels defined by her SEN or that I define them as SEN -and interestingly, she said and I quote:
"I have x condition. When I was primary we used to tell my friends that my body didn't work the same and I had funny wobbly limbs and bones and my heart needed a special hug and to be looked after carefully. All of my friends knew because I was in hospital having operations at times. But everyone was open, my friend was dyslexic and my other friend had social anxiety etc and the teacher just said they needed different help and told us if we could help them. Like, my friend who got worried sometimes she liked it if we held her hand during assmebly so we did that. Now I'm at secondary, I tell them I have x condition and for me it means I can't do running, football etc and I need to wear a monitor for certain things but only if it comes up. All my friends know. My SEN is part of me like a finger -I only bring it up when needed but my teachers, bus driver etc all know for emergency reasons, in case I need hospital. For example when I was in hospital we didn't make a big deal of it -but my hair came out after the op and so I wore a hat and the teachers knew and other students who asked knew. It wasn't a big deal. Sometimes for example if I'm tired, I will tell my teacher, I'm tired and I need to go to the medical room or go home etc. And they support me with that. Lots of things DEFINE people, for example, if they are kind, do the right thing, are honest or nice etc. These are the qualities that define me. X syndrome is a part of me but it doesn't define me' -considering she is a tween -I think she has got it bang on the money.

[LonginesPrime]

Yes x2boys - to be clear, I'm not in any way suggesting that siblings of SN children are automatically neglected!

It's just that they have to deal with all sorts of challenging emotional issues when they're still developing their own emotional intelligence. I'm not saying it will be the case in every situation, but things like vastly different behaviour expectations on each child, having to adjust their expectations to accept being treated like crap because their sibling doesn't understand or can't cope with social demands, having to grow up too fast, etc.

Hopefully there are many lucky children with sufficient emotional resilience and plenty of support (from parents/family/friends/CAMHS/charities/local authority) who will be absolutely fine. But the ones who aren't made of such strong stuff and don't have all that support can develop all sorts of MH issues of their own by the time they reach their teens or twenties.

I'm not saying that to discourage the OP as it's obviously her decision. I just think it's important to acknowledge the additional needs that any sibling of an SN child will automatically have by virtue of being born into that existing family dynamic. It won't be the same as raising a non-disabled child on their own as there is already a complex dynamic that creates additional needs for any additional child.

[x2boys]

No I agree @LonginesPrime my older sons childhood is different in some ways to his peers but we try and make him know we value him just as much as his brother ,I would never expect him to be his brothers carer but I would like him to make sure his brothers ok when I can't i no longer here, ie visit him etc , he loves his brother though just like I love my elderly parents who need support ,but he has his own life and I don't expect him to give it up for his brother I would just like him to be there for him.

[Decisivelyindecisive]

We have 4 Autistic children and I'm autistic myself. I'm often asked if we would of had 4 had we known in advance they would all have additional needs of varying degrees .... well we didnt know so it is what it is.

It has meant a huge adjustment to our lives and priorities and I'm not sure people are always prepared for that. I work extremely hard to make sure each child not only gets their needs met but gets daily 1:1 time not just scheduled in but also when they " just need it" ...some families I know with 2 children dont manage that so i think its really down to individual circumstances.

I spent years terrified my autism would perhaps make me a terrible parent when now I feel confident if makes me a better parent because I'm hyperfocused on ensuring they have the best childhood we can provide, making sure noone has caring duties and that everyone feels valued.

Its exhausting dealing with the medical appointments, EHCPs and education but this is just life now. I am fully aware though that I wouldn't be as calm if I didn't have such a supporting husband.

[stretchedmarks]

As someone who has a sibling with severe autism, I've voted YABU.

It's honestly been really shit a lot of the time. Everything is limited. You constantly don't feel like a priority. Your needs are seen as less important. You can't do basic things that nearly every other kid can do (like have friends over). The atmosphere at home is horrible, especially during and after a meltdown. Doing my exams was horrendous- I was trying to study in my room and he broke the kitchen door. So for the extent of my GCSEs and A Levels I had to listen to screaming and shouting all of the time. I ended up staying up til 6am most nights because it was the only time the house was actually quiet. I also felt like I had to stay home when I went to uni incase anything happened, so it was much of the same.

Even now, as a mum of two kids, my mum can't just come out to the park with me and the kids. There's so many hoops to jump through. And I can't even visit home, anymore. Last time I went, I had to run out of there before I got hit.

If you didn't have a NT child, I honestly feel like you'd be pushed to the absolute limit. I see what it's like first hand to parent an autistic adult. It's relentless and tough. I don't know what my parents are going to do when they get older (and their set up is one of the best I've seen for looking after an autistic adult- my dad is self employed so can come home at any time, my mum stays at home to look after him, they're luckily okay for money and they live in the country so they have space and things like noise complaints etc aren't an issue).

I just wouldn't. I totally get why you would want to. My mum herself wanted three kids, always did, but chose to stop at 2 after his diagnosis. She knew she couldn't cope with two non NT kids. I know my post has made it sound like they weren't good parents (they were! They did their absolute best), but it doesn't matter what you do, IMO. It's always going to be tough.

Don't make your life any harder than it needs to be. Take advantage of as much help as you can get. Use respite care. Fight hard to ensure your kids have places at a proper school/adult care facility (even if it's only 9am to 2pm a few days a week). As they get older, it gets so much tougher, and you'll need that support. With two kids, you might get a bit of free time and it'll keep you sane and happy. Three just makes it harder for all of you.

I totally do get that my response probably is hard to read, but I'm just giving you the perspective of a sibling. It's worth considering before you do TTC, if that's what you choose.

[Alabamawhirly1]

having to adjust their expectations to accept being treated like crap because their sibling doesn't understand or can't cope with social demands,

I don't know what experience you have of children with special needs. But you seen to think disabled equals some sort of monster. So you've lost all credibility in everything you say.

Not all children with additional needs will treat their sibling like crap. However many typical children will treat their siblings like crap.

For the last time DISABILITIES ARE A MASSIVE SPECTRUM.

You've jumped to an assumption that disabled means horrible child that limits life for the others in the family. Maybe go and spend some time with real life disabled children and adults and see that they come in all shapes and sizes, just like typical children.

[x2boys]

Indeed @Alabamawhirly1!!

[LonginesPrime]

You've jumped to an assumption that disabled means horrible child that limits life for the others in the family

I don't think my DC are horrible at all Alabama and I absolutely didn't say that. I love them dearly and would do anything for them.

They often treat people badly without meaning to and without the intention of being "horrible". Because they're disabled and they don't understand, not because they're nasty. The fact that you've drawn this conclusion that they're horrible says far more about your views of disability than it does about mine.

Not all children with additional needs will treat their sibling like crap. However many typical children will treat their siblings like crap

My children lash out because they have severe anxiety and they are communicating their needs in the limited means available to them. They are not being deliberately abusive. I understand that as an adult but it's challenging to explain that to another child and to encourage them to accept that this behaviour won't change but that it wasn't intentional and they shouldn't take it personally.

I did not say that disabled children are monsters and if you think that my describing a disabled child lashing out as part of a limited range of communication strategies available to them makes them sound like a monster, then perhaps it is you who should broaden your frame of reference wrt disability.

I find it odd that you keep shouting other people down as incorrect with the words "DISABILITY IS A SPECTRUM" when they offer their own experiences of living with a disabled child or sibling - if you genuinely believe that there is such a broad range of experiences of disability, why are you so intent on discrediting any which don't align with your own?