Concerned about friends sons behaviour

[Mecredi65]

My close friends son 4yrs is very bossy and rude. She was so happy last week when she told me how well he is doing at school and that she just doesn’t know where he gets all his confidence from, in his school report his teacher had said she has to constantly remind him that he is not the teacher and that he is very bossy with his friends and always has to be in charge in the game/during play. I wanted to say that it’s not confidence, Its actually quite arrogant. She finds his behaviour at home very hard he is very overpowering he will regularly hit her and say shut up but she seems to think this is how kids behave. Over the last few years other friends have said to her about his behaviour and it’s fallen on deaf ears and she thought it was funny when her in-laws suggested she shouldn’t have another one as she couldn’t manage son very well. What should I do?

Being a SENCO doesn’t make you qualified to diagnose a child.

If he were my child he wouldn’t be hitting or shouting. My children have always had boundaries and hitting Or shouting isn’t something we condone in our home.

You don't know that he wouldn't be hitting or shouting.
There are plenty of people who have one very well-behaved child and another who is very challenging.
Surely as SENCO you know that and surely you also know that SEN manifest themselves in different ways. Perhaps he hasn't got SEN but he might have and this is why he is very challenging.
If this scenario continues, at some point the teacher will start thinking about the possibility of SEN or about putting a behaviour management plan in place.
At the moment he is 4. If his mother wants help she can ask for it. It's none of your business quite frankly.

I think it is very easy to parent a child who has a placid nature. All children are different and have different personalities. My DS is 15 now but when he was 4 he was bossy, had to rule all the games, couldn’t play nicely with other children, always told other children he didn’t like them but on the flip side had a huge vocabulary for his age and was very bright. His nursery report said his favourite game to play was Bob the Builder as long as he’s the Foreman! There was no way anyone would have thought he had any additional needs at that point but he has since been diagnosed with Aspergers which now fits with how he wants to do everything his way and when he said he didn’t like other children it’s that he felt uncomfortable around them. I don’t agree with your friend not pulling him up on hitting her or others though as I always pulled DS up on things like that. All I know is parenting my DD who I had after him was a completely different experience and she would have looked like an angel in comparison. I’m still the same parent but my children have different personalities and needs. It’s not all about being a better parent, you can only parent the child you are given.

Is she asking your advice and wants you to get back to her?

If so then you shouldn't find out on mumsnet and report back. Instead suggest to her she gets support from HV/local parenting programmes.

If you want to give unsolicited advice, I would reconsider, if you do, then would just frame it as something you would do.

r
@Ihaventgottimeforthis

You don't do anything unless she asks you for help/advice if you need to intervene between her child and yours - for example managing a fight.

Otherwise, it's not your business and you don't know the full story.

Why have you read and memorised another 4 yr old's school report?,

this

Riv the average mainstream senco does not have all of that or even most of that. Any teacher can be a senco and the only requirement is to complete some extra training within a certain time.

Its not OK to hit people in the face or otherwise, but kids do things that are not OK while theyre still little and learning, and parents often have different strategies for dealing with it which arent always immediate performance discipline

No I’m actually a SENCO I don’t believe has a SEN.

Being a SENCO doesn't qualify you to make that judgement. Or does being a SENCO these days mean you're a qualified development paediatrician too? Because SENCOs can't diagnose SN or SEN. Which is just as well really given the nonsense some of them come out with.

Really surprised at the responses on here about a SENCO not being able to tell if a child has SEN.

This is not a dig at all SENCOs - a good SENCO is worth their weight in gold - but some of the most ignorant and ill-informed comments I have heard about both of my sons have come from various SENCOs.

SEN and SN aren't the same thing either, while there is a lot of overlap between the two and it is common to fall into both categories it's possible to have SEN and no disability/SN and visa versa.

Just wanted to say thanks for making this point, I'm sick of seeing people use SN/SEN interchangeably.

@Riv You are seriously overestimating the competence and level of knowledge of most SENCOs. Most of them certainly do not have a masters degree, let alone a great deal of experience in regards to special needs. I wish they were as you described. Maybe then there'd be less of them spouting bullshit about kids needing to be three years behind to get any help/that kids with Aspergers are too "high functioning" to get any support/a well behaved child can't be autistic.... And let's not forget that special power some SENCOs claim to have - the ability to discern "real autism" from the "that's not really autism, it's just poor parenting" kind. Said even when they know the child in question bas a diagnosis.

I spent 8 years working with SEN pupils and am now an educational consultant specialising in Autism and categorically wouldn't say anything to a friend about their DC unless I was directly asked, and even then I'd be cautious.

People do not want other people's truthful opinions about their DC. Your friend knows he's a handful, she knows he can be challenging. Just try and love him and have boundaries when he visits - keep him busy and boost his self-esteem when he's with you by picking up on the positive choices he makes. One of the things I love most about my closest friends is how much they love and cherish my DC. Try to support your friend.

@Riv You are seriously overestimating the competence and level of knowledge of most SENCOs. Most of them certainly do not have a masters degree, let alone a great deal of experience in regards to special needs.
I agree with this. The qualifications you describe may apply to some SENCOs but in my experience (many years of primary teaching), this is not the case. I have certainly never met anyone like this. Normally, what happens is after a few years of teaching someone begins to become interested in SEN and when a SENCO post becomes vacant (I'm talking about primary here as I have not worked in secondary so do not know what applies there), the teacher will express an interest to the head or the head might ask the teacher themselves or a teacher applies for a SENCO post at another school.
They may have been on training courses before being appointed to the post or are appointed and then begin to attend training. Over years in the post they build up a wealth of experience. They might later complete a higher qualification in a relevant field or they might not.

A lot of the work involves coordination with various external bodies and organizing assessments. Educational psychologists come into play here and would work with SENCO and class teacher to put a plan in place for the child concerned.

FudgeBrownie2019 you sound lovely, I'm glad you have the job you have, you sound well placed!!!

A teacher would ever describe s child that way in a report so that part of the OP is pure fantasy. 4year old boys have s hormone surge at around 4-6 so do often display more boisterous behaviour. I don't believe your OP
.

Thank you for your advice. Yes I will continue to support my friend as best as I can. It’s just hard to see her getting upset about his behaviour.I think I was just taken by surprise when told me about his school report and her response being that she is so pleased he has so much confidence. Yes all children are different and so are parenting methods, I just want to support her as best as I can.
Sorry to hear so many of you have had bad experiences with SENCOs. It’s a very challenging job trying to support children and family’s, through diagnosis all the way through to EHCP etc when there is little funding or understanding in mainstream education.
Many thanks

Sorry to have derailed the thread a little then apparently run - had a meeting, I wasn't avoiding mumsnet.
I have obviously had unusually positive experiences with SENCOs. It's sad that that is not the norm, it really should be. I thought all qualified teachers had training in child development, psychology and psycopedagogy as part of initial teacher training and a high percentage were expected to work towards a masters. It's certainly the case in the few schools I know (oop North). Things will obviously be changing due to the huge number of more experienced teachers leaving the profession and the very real recruitment crisis.
I do know that state schools have been brought into line with Private schools and they are now able to employ unqualified people, teaching assistants and HLTAs to teach classes instead of having a qualified teachers in every class. Many schools do this to enable them to stretch their limited budgets, and loose the knowledge the qualified teachers can offer - but again, that's another thread.
Will continue to follow but won't comment here again as this is not what the OP was wanting to discuss.

Are you really? Goodness

Maybe when term starts again you could focus on accessing training in order to develop the knowledge and skills that would make you a competent SENCO- and then you might not need to run to MN for input on such questions

I don’t think it’s possible or reasonable to assess someone’s capabilities and competency regarding their profession on a few lines of text.

This is a very close minded and judgemental way of thinking.

If he were my child he wouldn’t be hitting or shouting. My children have always had boundaries and hitting Or shouting isn’t something we condone in our home
How shortsighted!

My eldest was also an angel. No tantrums did all she was told, a model of what good parental discipline accomplishes.

Then I had DS! Same approach to discipline but totally different outcome. He had tantrums, anger bursts, meltdowns he was just so much harder work.

My eldest is now much more difficult to get along with as an adult. She is stubborn, unemotional and arrogant. She is leader though and extremelytrenely successful in her field. My DS is the most easy going adult, very perceptive, caring and affectionate.

You might have a surprise when your kids turn teenagers and suddenly nothing like who you thought you brought them up to be.

@Marzipan12 a teacher absolutely would describe a child like this. Obviously not all teachers, but some are very (or too) honest.

I have a school report from when I was child. I must have been 5/6 years of age and it says

‘if Lucyccfc68 doesn’t stop being so bossy, she will end up with no friends’.

I was bossy (still am a little bit), but do have lots of friends as I have obviously matured since I was a child 😂

In what world is a male hitting a female deemed acceptable

I'm not sure he's doing it as a misogynistic act of violence to perpetuate the patriarchy .

That said, this behaviour would be unacceptable from a 2 year old, let alone a 4 year old, and he ought to have been taught more acceptable methods by now to manage his frustrations.

Mind your own business

@Bbang

Are you really? Goodness

Maybe when term starts again you could focus on accessing training in order to develop the knowledge and skills that would make you a competent SENCO- and then you might not need to run to MN for input on such questions

I don’t think it’s possible or reasonable to assess someone’s capabilities and competency regarding their profession on a few lines of text.

This is a very close minded and judgemental way of thinking.

I wonder whether OP's SMT would think this thread demonstrated capability and competency as a SENCO, or indicate that there were gaps in her knowledge and skills that she should access training to overcome?

I don't care whether you think I'm judgemental and I don't think you can assess whether my way of thinking is close minded based on a few lines of text .

Over the last few years other friends have said to her about his behaviour and it’s fallen on deaf ears

How can that have happened over the past few years if he's only four?

@Mecredi65

She has previously asked why my dd is good and why she doesn’t hit me, what can I say to that, I’m quite a strict parent but we all have different parenting styles. On occasions when we have been out and he has started shouting at her and the hit her in the face with a water bottle I did step in and suggest I took him for a little walk to calm down (this was during a picnic and he wanted a third cake and got very angry when he was told no).

Blimey! So I should think. At four he is old enough to learn not to be violent.

Other than that, I wouldn't worry about him. If he can rein in his outbursts, he'll be fine. I'm all for children being confident and he obviously makes his teacher feel inadequate.

Anyway he isn't your child so don't say anything to your friend, she has to work this one out for herself.

To be honest OP you don’t sound very supportive.
I have 2 children. One went through the biting and hitting stage and one didn’t. One is impeccably behaved at school and one isn’t. One is shy and does what she’s told. One is loud and doesn’t.
I’m the same parent.
My parenting techniques are the same.
I’m consistent and fair.
The issue is they are different children with different personalities.
I don’t need unsolicited advice on how to change either of them.