Concerned about friends sons behaviour

[Mecredi65]

My close friends son 4yrs is very bossy and rude. She was so happy last week when she told me how well he is doing at school and that she just doesn’t know where he gets all his confidence from, in his school report his teacher had said she has to constantly remind him that he is not the teacher and that he is very bossy with his friends and always has to be in charge in the game/during play. I wanted to say that it’s not confidence, Its actually quite arrogant. She finds his behaviour at home very hard he is very overpowering he will regularly hit her and say shut up but she seems to think this is how kids behave. Over the last few years other friends have said to her about his behaviour and it’s fallen on deaf ears and she thought it was funny when her in-laws suggested she shouldn’t have another one as she couldn’t manage son very well. What should I do?

Your role as a SENCO doesn't qualify you to say that he has no additional needs, what you mean is that he currently has no identified/diagnosed additional needs rather than he definitely doesn't have any. SEN and SN aren't the same thing either, while there is a lot of overlap between the two and it is common to fall into both categories it's possible to have SEN and no disability/SN and visa versa.

As difficult as the situation is, it's not your place to give your friend parenting advice or to pass comment on her parenting unless specifically asked. Even if you are specifically asked then a tactful approach would be best rather than referring to him as arrogant.

"No I’m actually a SENCO"

So why are you asking us. You will be the expert.

And welcome to mumsnet. Interesting topic for your first post.

My friend has a 4 year old like this. It's absolutely down to his parenting. I think you're getting a bit of a raw deal on here OP.

YANBU. They are raising the child to be a bully.

In what world is a male hitting a female deemed acceptable? I'm shocked that on MN some people think this is OK.

If that's actually your job, you need firing. You're unbelievably smug and judgemental.

I don't tolerate shouting and hitting in our household either. My 6 year old still does it sometimes regardless - we are very firm but doesn't work for all children all the time. What do I do, chuck her out as we don't tolerate it? She can also be quite bossy and it's something we work on. My 4 year old would not dream of hitting, being rude or disobedient but is still quite a leader while being empathetic to her friends, she's just a lovely, kind child. They are very different personalities and are parented the same.

As far as what you do/say - nothing.

In what world is a male hitting a female deemed acceptable?

They are four! Yes, there needs to be clear behaviour management but linking this to the sex of the children is ridiculous.

I'd mind my own business - your friend won't appreciate "help" however well meant. However, I'd keep my DCs away as much as possible in case they learn his poor behaviour.

i doubt she condones hitting.

are you her friend?
leave your senco hat off and be a friend.

"In what world is a male hitting a female deemed acceptable? I'm shocked that on MN some people think this is OK."

What is your opinion on 4 year girls hitting their mother?

@Mecredi65

No I’m actually a SENCO I don’t believe has a SEN, yes I’m surprise at how many people think it’s ok to be hit by a child I think this is why my friend thinks it ok

Are you really? Goodness.

Maybe when term starts again you could focus on accessing training in order to develop the knowledge and skills that would make you a competent SENCO- and then you might not need to run to MN for input on such questions?

Some of your comments seem so strange about a four-year-old, that it's occurred to me to wonder if it's a typo and he's actually 14? For one thing, how could people have been commenting on his behaviour 'over the last few years', unless they've been commenting since his babyhood - and then this wouldn't refer to things like overconfidence in school settings. Assuming that he really is 4, the main thing that I would seriously worry about, is his apparently being allowed to hit his mother. I agree that this should be be an absolute no-no at any age, and needs to be stopped before he gets old enough to become physically intimidating and to see violence as a means of getting his own way,. The other things should be discouraged as bad manners, and adults should make sure that the others get a turn in games, a chance to speak, etc.; but I don't think that they are usually sinister in the case of a small child who hasn't yet acquired great social skills.

@Fldn33r

My friend has a 4 year old like this. It's absolutely down to his parenting. I think you're getting a bit of a raw deal on here OP.

I think that's quite a naive point of view tbh. My first three children were incredibly well behaved biddable children and I couldn't believe how people found parenting difficult because I had found it a doddle. Along came number four and all the methods and strategies I had mastered were quite simply useless in the face of number four. My friends joked that somebody had looked down, saw how easy I had it and sent me number four for a laugh at my expense. Ds was diagnosed with autism aged two and a half and I learned new skills and new strategies to manage him because my previous methods would never have worked and ds is equally as well behaved and biddable now. IME it's perfectly possible to be a very competent parent and still have a challenging child.

I think people saying parenting has nothing to do with anything are being a little disingenuous. But it is true that some children are more inclined to this behaviour than others. The trick is that you have to parent accordingly. DS went through a hitting stage. We had a policy of zero tolerance. Every single time he was removed from whatever he was doing and placed on his bottom somewhere else. It was EXHAUSTING. but, after 2 weeks, he learnt not to do it. I have to leave the room when I see parents whose children are hitting and smacking standing there saying, "No johnny, we don't hit. stop that" and it's all a bit ineffectual.

We largely kept DD away from DN for almost a year because he was incapable of seeing her without hitting her or similar and his parents refused to do anything about it except rather ineffectively shout at him.

@Mecredi65

She has previously asked why my dd is good and why she doesn’t hit me, what can I say to that, I’m quite a strict parent but we all have different parenting styles. On occasions when we have been out and he has started shouting at her and the hit her in the face with a water bottle I did step in and suggest I took him for a little walk to calm down (this was during a picnic and he wanted a third cake and got very angry when he was told no).

You tell her you think you discipline your DD a bit more but appreciate different people have different parenting styles. You ask if she took him out of the situation (like you did when you went a walk). Basically what you said here. Other than that it’s probably overstepping. Offer her suggestions when she asks but always say you appreciate different people do different things and it’s different for every child, so it’s not like you are blaming her.

"It was EXHAUSTING. but, after 2 weeks, he learnt not to do it."

Some parents are dealing with and managing behaviours that challenge for years. Two weeks isn't exhausting.

That is dealing with and managing as well as they can possibly be managed not just ignoring.

Really surprised at the responses on here about a SENCO not being able to tell if a child has SEN.

Teachers are trained in child development, child psychology, psycopedagogy, child behaviours as well as education. That's what their pre-teaching professional qualifications are all about. To become a SENCO they have to have a fair amount of experience in the classroom working all day with groups of typically developing children as well as some who don't fit that typical mould. They also have further training and usually more qualifications in education, pedagogy and child psychology. They often have a masters degree and may also be doctors in their field, though they are not usually not medical doctors.
They may not have the final say in a diagnosis, but they usually have far more experience and knowledge of the ways of children than say a GP who is very experienced in their field, but has not spent lengthy periods with large numbers of typically developing children. They are usually the ones who make the referrals and they are very heavily involved in providing evidence for a diagnosis, the ECHP process or decisions regarding the amount of intervention and support any individual child needs.

@Miljea damn right a nerve has been hit. I deal with attitudes like the OP’s every single time I leave my home with my ASD child. No amount of parenting or different types of parenting works because his brain doesn’t respond to normal techniques. The amount of times I’ve had doctors, teachers, other parents brandish me a shit mother because my son is overwhelmed and struggling with the situation is disgusting. It’s bloody well not down to my parenting - I’ve two other children that are nothing like this. It’s also NOT my sons fault. Sick to the back teeth of nasty arseholes and their judgemental holier than thou attitudes.

@Spikeyball

"It was EXHAUSTING. but, after 2 weeks, he learnt not to do it."

Some parents are dealing with and managing behaviours that challenge for years. Two weeks isn't exhausting.

I'm not talking about extreme behaviours linked to other issues (such as DS' SPD which has meant we continue to deal with all kinds of things, all the time).

I was talking specifically about the situation with my child hitting and yes, in my opinion, in 90% of cases, a child consistently hitting is something that MUST and can be dealt with.

And the OP knows damn fine she’s a nasty cow, the only reason she’s posted on here is to be one.

Kids go through allsorts of stages. My daughter was a possesive over mummy four year old. She also went mute for a few months after her brother was born. She had been at school about a month and the teacher told me she had started being silly in class. Running about. Not respecting the furniture. I was so mortified as she wasn't being good and it was usually she was shy. I had a very disappointed chat with her. She wasn't allowed to watch tele that evening and I reminded her all weekend she must try harder to please the teachers.

She improved massively and those days are behind her. She can still be possesive of me at five but she is now so well behaved. She's easier to get to bed. She's less stroppy. She listens. She still gets anxious with some family. I really struggled watching her go through being 3&4 and it was just her personality. Sometimes we have to be proud of them even if it has been challenging. In another year or two he could be alot more mature.

I really can't stand people commenting on their friend's children. It's like everything, you get a snapshot into what they're like. Plus he's 4. They shouldn't say the terrible 2s, the ages of 3 4 and 5 are a million times more challenging!!

No matter how experienced a SENCO is, they are not qualified to diagnose.

I feel so sorry for op's friend - imagine being told by your ILs not to have another child because you can't cope with the one you have. That's terrible and they have overstepped the line hugely. I would never forgive my ils if they said anything like that.

Some children, with or without additional needs, are more prone to using physical behaviours. No one on here said it's a good thing, but what many people have pointed out is that firstly, he is only 4, secondly, op's friend hasn't asked for her help and lastly, it impact on op's life that we know.

Just leave it be op and concentrate on your own life.

In what world is a male hitting a female deemed acceptable? I'm shocked that on MN some people think this is OK.

I don't think people think it's okay, but that the OPs attitude towards a 4 year old and insistence that it's her friends poor parenting that's the issue is pretty nasty.

You don't do anything unless she asks you for help/advice, or you need to intervene between her child and yours - for example managing a fight.

Otherwise, it's not your business and you don't know the full story.

Why have you read and memorised another 4 yr old's school report?