I'm a landlady....

[SomeOtherGirl]

I'm going to try to word this carefully. It's to do with making different life choices but it's in a sensitive area which could imply that I'm being judgemental. I don't mean to be. I'm just wondering if this sounds normal to the ears of anonymous mumsnetters.

So we have a rental property - our old place. I will try to give as much info as possible though some probably isn't totally relevant, but people might ask otherwise :-)

A nice couple moved in and they have a baby.

The deposit was covered by the council, and the monthly rent is £600, which was to be paid by them. They are on UC - they had asked me if I minded and I answered of course not!

I am 75% sure that the guy has a job of some description as he talks about it on Facebook.

They moved in and after the first month immediately fell into arrears, with a late partial payment and then a missed payment. They are a little more than a month behind on rent.

I did some research and found that the UC people can pay us about 90% of the rent directly to us, which sounded easier for everyone so I applied for that and all has been well, aside from the outstanding rent.

We asked the tenants if they can catch up this money and they said they'd have to do so in drive and drabs. This was last autumn. They have yet to make a payment but with Christmas and then corona virus I didn't push it. UC said we could apply to have it taken out from their other benefits in small chunks but I think the debt needs to equate to two months for this.

So now there are some bits and bobs to do maintenance wise so we've been looking at that and working out how to sort them out.

In the conversation, we asked if they'd be able now to start repaying the arrears as it would help with sorting out the maintenance bits. They said they could only do £10 a month as they have to pay for other stuff - namely Sky which they have at £90 a month.

I was really surprised at this. We rely on this rent as an income. I'm not able to work at present and we live modestly. I know people tend to think of their landlord as being Mr megabucks but it's not like that with us. We have netflix at 5.99 a month and thats the extent of our entertainment luxuries.

I'm just surprised that a lovely couple who get their housing costs covered plus additional benefits - and a job - see repaying this rent debt as so low priority.

Am I a bit mad? Should I sell the place?
I've not got cross with them or anything about it by the way. But I am wondering if I should sell it. They wanted me to come change a lightbulb recently. I think they've also moved an older step child in, which is fine I guess But they didn't mention it.

I try to be a really considerate landlady as far as I can but it's never going to be a perfect situation.

Just wondering what your thoughts are ? Obviously not planning on evicting them over this.

I’m a landlord too. Be pragmatic: if they left how easy would it be to get new tenants? It’s a bad time to sell properties now and anyway that would leave you months of having to find the mortgage somehow. Forget how they spend their money - that is their business. And get the debt through UC. But not more than say £25 a month

Ps right now Evictions are not possible due to Covid

Evicting might be long and difficult or it might be quick and easy. I've rented out a property for more than 10 years now and only once had to evict a tenant. He left on the day the notice expired, no problems at all. Shame about the 30,000 pounds worth of damage that made us serve notice in the first place..

They are piss taking cf

They are taking the piss. Don't change the lightbulb.

So you are making money out of other taxpayers by taking UC. I don’t care if you don’t get a bean to be honest. Why the bloody hell should I pay your rent!

So you are making money out of other taxpayers by taking UC. I don’t care if you don’t get a bean to be honest. Why the bloody hell should I pay your rent!

I used to be a landlord. You need to start the formal written process to get rid of them . There's loads of advice online and on all the landlords sites and forums.If your tenant has gone a month without paying rent, and another month is now due, you can consider your tenant to be two months in arrears. Try to avoid tenants like this in future .

OP I think you need to find yourself a really good letting agent to manage your property- very quickly!They can read your tenants the riot act and will take the stress off you.
You don't sound as though you understand much about being a landlord, and the tenants are currently taking the piss massively. You're very unlikely to ever get the arrears back, or a full month's rent in the future.
Eviction is a costly, stressful and difficult process, and to be used as a last resort only. As I say, a good letting agent should be able to able to read them the riot act and get them to pay the arrears back in a more timely fashion, as well as ensuring they pay the rent in future hopefully.

They don't sound a good bet nor financially sound. Is there work they could do eg 15 hours at a weekend for you on your own house or in the garden to start to pay back this debt a lot faster than they are proposing?

Haven't read the full thread but the olden days people used to pay their rent and THEN pay for other stuff. Rent came first to keep a roof over their heads.

I am not keen on second home ownership, but tenants take the mick when they expect their landlord to accommodate them for free or a reduced rent.

Anyone shocked by the lightbulb request, my Aunt had tenants message her at 10pm saying she needed to bring them new tea towels the next day as the ones they had were now unacceptable. It was the final straw with their pisstaking.

Sorry OP can't offer advice beyond toughen up, they're not mates, you don't owe them any favours.

OP, I’m sorry but you sound way too nice and I’ve no idea why you’re making excuses for these people.

There is a reason they are on UC, “Oh, the landlady won’t mind as long as she gets 90% of the rent,” could just as easily be, “Oh work won’t mind if I turn up a few hours late - they should be happy I’m there for 90% of the shift....” Some people are takers, basically. They will push as far as they can as they think life (and everyone in it, including you) owes them something and / or should accommodate them.

Er no, They are leeches with totally selfish and skewed priorities. Sky TV indeed. You are paying for that - and other taxpayers. If he is working, then he is guilty of fraud.

You need to start the eviction process, I’m afraid. Don’t take this kind of tenant again.

Evict them and rent the property out through an agent and take out insurance for non payment of rent.

@undecovermuvver
So you are making money out of other taxpayers by taking UC. I don’t care if you don’t get a bean to be honest. Why the bloody hell should I pay your rent!
You're not paying their rent though are you? YOUR rent is the money you pay for the service provided to you. ie a property that you can live in, and be maintained by the landlord.

My colleague is a landlady and had a mother with 2 teenagers in her
rented property. They obviously could not afford the rent and got
behind very soon as well.
The problem she had was that the woman went to the Council
who took her side despite all the rent owed. Appalling.
As a landlord you are not treated well these days. No appreciation
from the Council or attempt to move the woman into more
affordable accommodation.

It’s a bad time to sell properties now

In London at least this is not even remotely true.

Could you not say to them that you cannot do the maintenance until they have paid all the money owed?

sunrise234 and whataboutbob I think someone further up the thread made a comment about landlords being just about as hated as Americans on MN, but it was tongue in cheek, as was my comment. I don't feel too hated here on IRL...but I agree with the comments that say best to collect the rent direct from UC. I have a tenant on UC (formerly housing benefit?) and she IS lovely and been in the property for a long time. She's not paying full market price, because she was one of my original tenants and she's great and I hate to make her move. But I am equally up front about the arrangement, e.g. I'm not prepared to make cosmetic changes/improvements while not receiving market rent, and it's ok. So the OP needn't worry about being firm but friendly with her tenants. Just takes some practice.

OP,

I would absolutely judge anyone so entitled as to ring to have a light bulb changed.

Someone owing me rent, and ask for a bulb changed....would be a deal breaker.

They are taking the piss and I wouldn't hesitate to protect myself.

They certainly don't sound like nice people to me.

You don't pay for Sky if you can't make your rent.

End of.

They have shown you who they are.

If this comes back to bite you hard, ....you were well warned!

Debt adviser here; I'm going to offer an alternative perspective.

Yes, rent arrears are a priority and your tenants should be coming to an arrangement with you to repay them ASAP. This is rule number one.

£90pm for Sky is high, but they could be in a binding contract which they cannot reduce. Break it and they will be billed for the remainder of the contract plus fees - could be £hundreds. Understandable that they wouldn't want to rack up extra debt. Sky won't willingly agree to reduce the package in contract just because they have rent arrears - there's a reason why Murdoch is a multi-billionaire.

Plus for a large family having a tv package on top of the Internet may be their ONLY 'leisure' expenditure. I see families every week who don't spend a penny on the gym, eating out, going to the cinema/theatre/gigs, days out with the kids, buy books/mags/records etc because they can't afford to.

Plus Internet is not a luxury these days, it's a necessity - if they don't maintain that UC claim they will be sanctioned! Those Sky salesmen love upselling internet sales into tv packages - lovely bit of commission.

UC is a horrible benefit to manage on - the House of Lords just published a paper acknowledging that it is not fit for purpose, one of the main issues being the amount of rent arrears it causes. They are making recommendations to change it. Your tenants were on the back foot the moment they had to claim

I would encourage your tenants to contact their nearest CAB for a debt appointment. The adviser can put together a financial statement and help your tenants work out their budget. They can explore their expenditure and help them work out with you how to get those arrears down.

Please be thankful that you have the option to take possession of your house and think about the privilege of being a landlady. You are making money off the state; yet you are judging your tenants for claiming the help they need because they are not paid enough wages to afford housing costs in the first place.

Also, bear in mind that if you apply for possession you will now need to submit to court a statement setting out how the coronavirus pandemic has affected the finances of your tenants. If you haven't had that conversation with them about that then maybe that would be a good time to signpost them for some advice!

What kind of maintenance does it need? You might be better of seeing if they know someone who can do it and they sort it out directly? It would involve you checking they are actual traders obviously and checking them out, but you might find this is an easier solution.

I wouldn't begrudge them Sky, it will be for the footy or sports and they aren't alone in UK in thinking it is the most important utility bill. I don't have it either but largely because I do not like sport in any shape or form!

Upkeeping properties is expensive if done properly. You will have years of this ahead with maybe a year or two in between if you are lucky with nothing, then a big one. FWIW it sounds as if this is just too much for them to cover in a lump but they are willing and have paid otherwise.

I've had bad tenants before and they break everything, pretend they paid or that money is "just coming", try to spin tall tales and act the victim constantly. It doesn't sound like these guys are, they are just caught in a situation where they don't have "extra" to make up for the debt.