Violent dog and 9mo DS

[cuddlypenguins]

So just before i found out i was pregnant with now 9mo DS, we were visiting DPs DF and DSM for an evening. Towards the end of the evening, their dog bit my face through to the bone, leading to stitches and black eyes for a while.
Fast forward to now and DP has understandably told his DF and DSM that they cannot have DS overnight as they still have the dog.
Dog has tried to bite DP in the past, but he brushed it off as want more than a nick, hes an animal lover and there wasnt a child involved.
His DSM has been like a second mum to him, has been in his life since he was a child and treated him as her own. However she was never able to have children of her own and treats the dog like her baby.
His DF, hates animals, so the dog probably hasn't had the best life with him and that could be the cause for the aggression, but its not worth putting our DS at risk.
DP had the conversation with his DF as lockdown is easing and they started asking for overnight visits. So DP told his DF they can't have DS overnight as its too dangerous. The conversation was civil and he said he understood and it was for the best.
Once his DF told his DSM though, it has turned into an argument where we have been called ungrateful etc after everything they've done for us, and do we really think they'd be stupid enough to put DS at risk?
Problem is on more than one occasion now when we have visited them on the understanding the dog is kept well away from DS, they have let the dog out around him as if it is no big deal, so we worry they can't be trusted to keep the dog away if we are not there.
Its escalated now to them having been almost totally NC since, with DPs DF talking to him briefly but seemingly trying to play both sides for an easy life.
This means for the time being by their choice they aren't seeing DS, which is making us angry as it feels as if they are putting their violent dog before their DGC.
We want to resolve this without causing more of an argument but dont know how.
AWBU to stand our ground and say absolutely not?

There is absolutely no reason for grandparents to have babies overnight or alone and in honesty I would only be letting them see your child under supervision as I wouldn’t trust them to not take him home if they are allowed to take him out alone .

I’ve owned an unpredictable reactive dog, he just wasn’t around young children ever...

If I still had him and there were grandchildren, he’d have been kept completely separate and I’d have had to rule out things like overnight visits, because they’re just not practical.

We had things set up so he was reliably kept away from visitors anyway, but obviously overnight is a different thing.

So, no, you’re not being unreasonable at all and it’s something they should have thought of as well.

I think you should focus on your child not being there alone full stop rather than overnights.

Hopefully the bite didn’t scar, I’m assuming it did though? 😥

I'd just be frank again with df.
"We are forever grateful for everything that you have done for us and want nothing more than ds to grow up with you in his lives. But dog's attack on OP have made it impossible for them to be together at any point. You've said he'd be put away when we've come round which hasn't been followed through on, this feels like your pushing back on our boundaries and trying to show us that everything would be fine. Sadly that ship has already sunk. So looking forward, we'd love to see you more but without dog, we could go a park etc. I leave it in your court to get back to us."
But if you ever went round and they let the dog in 'just to say hello' have an agreement that the closest one grabs ds and you both just leave. No matter that they'll say he'll go away again.

Maybe tell her that you don’t want to end up in the news in this way:

www.daventryexpress.co.uk/news/crime/mum-baby-killed-family-dog-knew-dog-was-danger-and-knew-her-grandmother-could-not-look-after-it-says-judge-868470

@rainbowshine that was horrible to read and has absolutely cemented the feeling that we are in the right. That poor baby

Glad you have come to a decision. Bit disturbed you even had to ask tbh.

I would be inclined not to go there at all anymore. My parents did this with my granny as her dog used to snap at me when I was small and I was terrified of him and she wouldn't call him off, said I was being a baby (I was 4). After he cornered me behind the sofa whilst snarling at me we didn't visit again until the dog died several years later.

A school friend of mine was bitten by a relatives dog as a small child - she had permanent facial scarring. The dog was PTS which caused a permanent family feud. Ended up in court and the relative had to compensate my friend for her injuries.

You're completely in the right OP. They should have had the dog destroyed when it bit you. They certainly shouldn't expect you to be around it still, or let your DS be around it.

They are prioritising their dog over their grandson. This is on them not you.

Oh hell no.

Also please don't let them take baby out for the day without the dog, they will likely go back to their house just so they can say "see, it was fine". But it might not be.

Absolutely stand your ground. Also, why on earth do they need overnight visits with a 9mo anyway

Unless the child knows the grandparents extremely well and is very close to them, I wouldn't think it a good idea to send a 9 month old child to stay with them overnight.

I would need to know that my child was happy to be with them all day before even considering overnight.

And that's without adding a dog into the mix that is know to have bitten in the past. Tbh with a dog like that in the house, I wouldn't be taking my child there at all.

You absolutely must stick to your guns, regardless of how they react, your child must not be anywhere near that dog. I'm speaking as a dog owner btw.

I don't understand GPs who expect to have small children to stay with them overnight. They're expecting a small child to happily sleep in a strange bed, in a strange bedroom and wake in the night and find that mummy and daddy aren't there.

I think I'm very close to my grandchildren but unless there was some sort of emergency it would never occurred to me that they would come and stay overnight with me.

@pigsDOfly I agree with what you've said. When ds was 9mo he was just beginning to have a few hours alone with grandparents during the day. We didn't leave him overnight until he was 14 months old. He stayed at our home with granny and we were in a hotel for a wedding.
He wasn't overnight at a grandparents house until he was 18mo from what I recall. By that point he'd spent all day alone with grandparents and napped at their house.

I agree that you would not be able to prevent an attack even if you are there. It's a difficult situation, we have the same situation in our family too.

You won't be able to get through to your SMIL and you can't trust her, as she has shown previously. She thinks you are overreacting and will go out of her way to go against your wishes. People can be very weird about their aggressive dogs.

In our family's case, the dog being put above humans in the pecking order is what has caused the aggression to babies/toddlers in the first place.

Oh my god! You’re absolutely in the right here - the child should never be around the dog. I can’t believe you seem so calm about the fact it bit your face to the bone, that’s a massive problem and yes, it may well be down to trauma and abuse of the dog but the fact is, it isn’t safe. I say this as a dog lover with two of my own.

You need to stand your ground and you should report the incident - the dog should be removed from them. In the best case scenario it would go to a home with someone with experience of aggressive unpredictable dogs but a severe attack like that may mean it’s beyond rehabilitation.

What is it with grandparents in the UK wanting to take infant GC for the day or overnight? It's just not done in the US, so a complete surprise to me and it comes up on MN regularly. Do they take the kid around town, showing the baby off like a football trophy?

I'd turn it round on DSM and say "I'd be mortified if Fido needed to be destroyed or if you faced criminal charges because of an incident with DD". Yes, that would be the least of the issues if there was an incident, but clearly your DSM can't think through the consequences, so put it back on her - this is for the dog's protection and hers. (I'm a dog lover, but deliberately using the emotive language "destroyed" rather than the weedy "put to sleep" because you need to shock DSM.

Mil had a much loved but unpredictable dog when I fell pregnant. First thing she said was, you know I'll never let them be in the same room as baby don't you.

In the end, she decided to have dog PTS just before DS was born because she felt that she might forget, let dog out accidentally or toddler could open room door etc and it wasn't worth the risk.

As a result, I've never doubted that she always has my DC best interests at heart.

@AngelicInnocent why didn't she re-home the dog with an older adult with no children instead of pts?!

Sorry to say, these people should never have any unsupervised access to your child, under any circumstances. They have proven they are unable to properly assess risk, or unwilling to act accordingly. They are unsafe.

I'm amazed that you've asked whether you're being unreasonable .

Wow. Firstly, it’s your baby not hers so she has no say or right in demanding overnight. What’s wrong with her? I have a great relationship with my family and zero dogs and I would still not allow anyone to have my baby overnight. That’s a big fat no.

I know it’s not the point of the thread, but how did they react when the dog bit you?

I am struggling to understand how they’re so relaxed about their grandchild visiting knowing the damage the dog did to you.

Please don't send your baby there with that dog. It's clearly feral. If it did that you then I t doesn't bare thinking about what it would do to a baby. I m afraid they're going to have to choose their GDS or their Dog

I am a dog owner and you are completely in the right. It is not difficult to keep a dog out of the way and mine are crate trained for the odd occasion when we need to do this .

If they can’t be bothered to keep the dog and the baby apart then that’s their problem not yours . You have offered compromise so their loss.

@cuddlypenguins sorry perhaps I should have put a warning in my post about that link. Apologies if I caused distress. Maybe the shock tactics would work with them, you would be able to weigh up whether it would help or provoke a worse reaction.