To think places of Worship should be closed before pubs.

[StatisticalSense]

If it is found that more restrictions are going to be needed to keep the virus under control people immediately jump to pubs and other hospitality venues which are essential to keeping the economy functioning, employ literally millions of people (and support the jobs of millions more), and are beneficial to the mental health of many of their clientele. Places of worship however provide no economic benefit, and are just as much of a vector of spread as people socialise with many others who they wouldn't otherwise see. This means that it would clearly make sense from an economic and societal stand point to close places of worships if this would allow pubs to stay open.

Connecting with your religion can just as easily be done at home. I’ve never been to a church in my life, but I believe in God and follow Christian values. I don’t feel I need to go to a building to pray - I can do it from home. On that basis I feel that as there is evidence that large gatherings spread the virus, then people, of all religions, should accept that their places of worship need to close temporarily. Pubs need to be kept open, following strict safety guidelines, solely for economic reasons.

I don’t go to church and think that’s a bizarre idea. Does this country really care more about a piss up than someone’s mental health?
Personally I think organised religion should be done away with but I accept some people find it helpful/ reassuring/ a life line. Pubs whilst a social place is really not the same.

Church is vital for my fellow Christian's mental welfare. I go to a church witha few hundred people across several campuses and I know quite a few people.who are struggling with it being shut. Church services online are good but not as good as meeting in person. Church is also the only chance that some people get to socialise. Now that it is shut, they are feeling quite isolated. It is not just pre lockdown Christian's that are benefitting from drawing close to God. Statistics show that 1 in 4 people have been regularly watching online services during this period.

My church gets all of it's money from donations, which it uses to run a food bank which over 1000 people benefit from, a school uniform bank where we give away school uniforms for free to parents who need them, the money is used to put together baby bundles consisting of essential items for newborns. These are given to new mothers who do not have much money. We run various youth clubs, which keeps youths with nothing to do in the evening off the streets. We also raise money for projects abroad, including Cambodia and Uganda. These projects help impoverished children have access to fresh water, education, food, medical care etc. We also support a charity that helps women who have been saved from the slave trade. This is just a few of the things that we do for local communities and communities abroad. Now the church is closed, we are not able to reach as many people that need help, and not as.much money is being donated by the parish, although a lot of people are still donating online.

So while I understand that pubs provide people with income and it is important they they re-open, I do not believe that they are more important than places of worship.

Pubs have proven that a lot of people won't socially distance. What with alcohol, the excitement of being with friends etc it just isn't working in some places. So far, in my church, we are socially distancing just fine. We have one way systems, hand sanitizing stations, our buildings are big enough to allow us to stay two metre apart at all times etc etc and everyone abides by the rules. The fact that we are split across several different campuses means it won't be a case of hundreds turning up to the same building. If it is found that quite a few churches are not abiding by regulations or large gatherings of people meeting for worship are causing outbreaks, then the government no doubt will cause us to close again.

Not religious but as long as they are sticking to the rules then they should remain open. For lots, they are the main source of support in their lives. They have volunteers who help with food shopping, checking on people etc.

There will be far more people at home with friends/family ignoring SD than there will be in pubs. Most children here have been playing out with no distance since pretty much March.

Oh and we will all be wearing masks too. Which is not done in pubs at the minute.

@SamSeabornforPresident

Off topic slightly but not everyone who goes to a pub is 'pissed' and rubbing up against their fellow pub goers (or at least they aren't where I am). It's possible to sit in the pub, at your socially distanced table, drink 2 glasses of wine, chatting only to your companion and the masked bar staff, then leave, without putting yourself at much risk of Covid at all. I don't know what pubs you lot go to where everyone is rolling all over each other.

I know this comment was tongue in cheek and I'm going to sound really weird and ernest by responding seriously .

But, if you read the whole thread, you'll see that people were saying that some people are not social distancing when they get together in pubs, because they get overexcited about a night out with friends and that the more people drink, the less likely they are to remember to socially distance or the lost their inhibitions and decide to sack off the whole social distancing idea. So obviously, it isn't a given that you will be one of those people as soon as you set foot in the door of a pub. But the people who do do this might be enough to push up infection rates a bit. I don't think any of this is likely to happen in church. People tend not to lose their inhibition and get overexcited at church. Not CofE anyway!

We don’t need to close anything. There has not been a rise in hospital admissions. Regardless of the scare mongering were actually doing ok and still coming out the other side

Agree, not least because the demographic of those regularly attending places of worship is swayed massively to high risk groups (the elderly and ethnic minorities)

Ahh, so the op is talking about Muslims, but couldn't actually say that or would have been accused of racism

OMG...of course! ‘Places of worship’

It’s Eid al-Azha at the moment!
Evening if 30 July - Evening of 3 Aug.

Is OP suggesting that ‘The Great British Pub* culture is more important than Muslim communities celebrating Eid and praying in Mosques?

Tim, is that you?

I have to hand it to this particular OP for arguing against all the odds for pubs at every given opportunity. That takes balls.

@slipperywhensparticus

you dont get pissed and lose your inhibition in a church

Speak for yourself.

I am laughing at 5 pages of people describing what the protocols are at their church. Better luck next time OP

Yabu. Just adding to the chorus of "we've got a 22 page risk assessment and a list of DO NOT DO/THERE IS TO BE NO....as long as your arm from the diocese"

Church doesn't look like it used to, and won't for a long time. But it has absolutely been a source of comfort and strength for many and will continue to be.

The Church of England has quite clear guidelines which churches are expected to follow.

Social distancing - ie seats 2m apart.

No singing or moving around.

Communion in one kind, brought to each chair.

No physical contact during the Peace.

One way system to enter and leave.

Hand sanitising.

Track and trace

From next week, face coverings for all.

Most churches have some kind of online presence, eg live streaming on YouTube, and Dioceses have provided technical support, as well as clarity for copyright and licensing.

@SomewhereEast "The ones holding services now are generally quite formal & tradition places with smaller congregations but big buildings, plus no or few children." We are a large informal church with loads of children and youth - but also wide age range - and we have restarted - but capacity reduced from 500+ (and usually pretty full) to 100 max and all booked in advance. So a very different service and average age probably twice that of a normal service. I'm glad they are doing it for those who it helps but personally I am sticking to Zoom small group meetings and services for now. But my DD loved attending the socially-distanced youth group meeting yesterday (although max of 15, whereas usually about 100 youth on a Sunday evening).

@SomeWateryTart "People tend not to lose their inhibition and get overexcited at church. Not CofE anyway!" You've obviously not been to my CofE church! (To be fair, whilst it's usually loud and informal, it's not constant excitement and lack of inhibition - but it certainly happens.)

@AliMonkey Our young people have distanced blah blah outdoor meet ups too, & we're encouraging people generally to meet up in small groups within Whatever The Rules Are This Week (our area has no extra restrictions at the moment). Interestingly there was just no appetite amongst any of our people to go back yet. Luckily even our older members are quite tech savvy so Zoom etc has worked out ok. We're about 70 counting kids on a Sunday but just don't have much space.

OP YABVU

Whet an awful world we live in if pubs are more important than churches ?!?

I'm not overly religious but would never have considered pubs to provide the kind of mental, personal and community support churches do.

YABU. Alcoholism is more important than faith? Fuck that.

Pubs are places if worship in my experience!

Most churches have some kind of online presence, eg live streaming on YouTube, and Dioceses have provided technical support, as well as clarity for copyright and licensing.

This means nothing to technophobes like my DM who go to church to feel part of a community.

As an atheist, I agree. Suspect churchgoers won’t though.

I won’t be going to pubs or restaurants any time soon either though.

I'm an atheist but disagree with you. Places of worship are often the only contact for people who are socially isolated.

Our church is still closed. Busy, large congregation, decided that social distancing wasn't possible to maintain. Perhaps if pubs etc had taken social distancing seriously then we wouldn't be where we are now.

Tabu.
I can't speak for churches but at all our local mosques
you have to have a mask on( they also have masks available for those who've forgotten),
you have to bring your own prayer mat,
You can't use the washing facilities,
you have to fill out the track and trace form
Every two spaces are taped off
The building is only open at set times
There are multiple services for each of the 5 prayers as numbers are limited
The prayer hall is the only room unlocked
Between prayers and shifts attendants clean and sanitise
Doors are wedged open so no/ limited hands touching surfaces.
There's loads of sanitiser at the door.
I'm sure churches and other places of worship have similar rules .
The last instruction is If you don't want to or can't abide by the rules please pray at home!

And to add one of our smallest mosques has shifts for prayers and recommends times for the younger attendees be different than the elderly.

I think pubs are likely to create greater risks than most places of worship tbh. I'm atheist to the point of at times being antitheist and a great fan of alcohol, and I'd rather see pubs close than mosques, synagogues, churches, temples etc.