To think places of Worship should be closed before pubs.

[StatisticalSense]

If it is found that more restrictions are going to be needed to keep the virus under control people immediately jump to pubs and other hospitality venues which are essential to keeping the economy functioning, employ literally millions of people (and support the jobs of millions more), and are beneficial to the mental health of many of their clientele. Places of worship however provide no economic benefit, and are just as much of a vector of spread as people socialise with many others who they wouldn't otherwise see. This means that it would clearly make sense from an economic and societal stand point to close places of worships if this would allow pubs to stay open.

Yes because churches only give you a mouthful of wine if you're lucky.

Non religious but think you are completely BU and a bit ridiculous, I haven't had the urge to go to a pub since they opened and likely won't for a very long time, but if I did and couldn't I don't think crashing a Sunday service would cut the mustard instead

I'm sure the op just meant gatherings of people, not that they shouldn't do that sort of thing. It's useful to know that some of the more vulnerable members with no family nearby are being physcially 'seen' by the outside world at least once a week. Yes, there's nothing to stop people from checking in with others without weekly worship, but it's easy for someone to get missed out.

I don't see places of Worship as being any more high risk than eating or drinking out or going to the supermarket. Personally I'd rather go to the pub than a Church but everyone is different.

I'm guessing you're not aiming your comments at churches, which are following social distancing guidance and many of which, like the one I attend, haven't reopened since closing in March? The church of England seems in no rush to get back to normal. Many churches have small congregation that can easily distance in church. Perhaps be clearer if you're actually talking about other places of worship?

I think you need to actually look at the guidelines churches are operating under. They are far safer than pubs and cannot be likened to them.

One household per pew. Each pew sanitised thoroughly. Every other pew sealed off.
Hand sanitiser on entering.
Reduced length of services.
No wine.
No holy water.
No collection plate passed around.
Masks mandatory.
No singing.
No unnecessary moving around.
Numbers limited. Voluntary stewards ensuring social distancing is happening.
Contact tracing.
No sign of peace.

And so on and so forth.

My Muslim family members report strict measures at the local mosque too and same for a Jewish colleague.

I completely disagree with you. Pubs, where people get so drunk they can’t social distance and which aren’t under as strict measures should close first.

I couldn't disagree more.

Have you actually read the guidance for places of worship? You basically aren’t allowed to interact with anyone outside your household, you have to wear a mask and you’re far more likely to actually properly social distance than in a pub.

If the morons in the pubs understood and implemented social distancing then perhaps there would be no need for closing the pubs.

Take it up with the customers.

• Social distancing becomes harder to remember the more alcohol you drink. Therefore, social distancing at a pub relies on people not getting so drunk that they forget to social distance, which means spending less. Not a problem at a place of worship, you aren’t pissed as a fart and the income of the place of worship isn’t affected by you consuming more whilst there.
• Places of worship can provide great mental health benefits to those who believe. They provide the same mental health benefits as pubs.
• Places of worship can provide a sense of community for those feeling isolated at this time, exactly like pubs.
• Places of worship it is very easy to practice social distancing. Many places of worship have had low turn out for a while, they’ve been doing social distancing since before it was popular. Pubs are at the limit of people allowed in, as their economic situation becomes more precarious, they may need to be lax on social distancing to allow more people in. The financial situation for most places of worship has usually been iffy, they’re used to having low numbers and struggling to make the books balance. They aren’t suddenly going to be seeing a massive influx though.
• Activities that go against social distancing have already been stopped in places of worship, way before lockdown happened. The peace has stopped for example.

Both pubs and places of worship play an important role in our society. Pubs may be better for the economy but they aren’t better for preventing the spread of Covid-19.

Our place of worship is still closed and will remain closed for the foreseeable future.

I think you will find that far more people frequent pubs than churches nowadays

Tim, is that you?

I think you're massively underestimating the importance of places of worship to their congregation's mental health. The mental health crisis we are about to have is going to have significant economic impact, if you want to talk only in numbers. Personally I think that's a logical fallacy.

(I'm neither religious nor a pub goer)

I'm not religious, but recognise that churches (+ centres for other faiths) will contribute to mental well being and combat loneliness for many.

as long as they don't all slurp from the same communion cup or whatever 🍷

I don't attend church, but freedom of religion is a major tenet of the "freedoms" of the west. The churches shouldn't be closed for a second long then necessary, frankly it was inappropriate to close them the first time round - open air, socially distanced worship and communion should have been permitted. Churches close AFTER boozers.

I disagree on a few points

1. it would never come to a choice between places of worship and pubs because closing places of worship would make hardly any different to transmission rates. They are being incredibly carefully reopened with tiny numbers, socially distanced, wearing masks and using hand sanitizer. Whereas at pubs people get drunk, people definitely aren’t socially distancing and they have high volumes of people. So if the government decides that they need to see a drop in cases, closing the churches, mosques will likely change nothing.
2. places of worship provide support that is sorely needed. Obviously spiritual and mental care, but also very practical help usually far beyond their congregations. Whilst services can happen online, if regular giving is reduced for a prolonged period things like family support services, food banks and help applying for benefits will all suffer as churches crumble financially.
3. you would lose the respect of many people for whom it would be the ‘final straw’ and you may not get compliance. It’s one thing to close places of worship whilst everything else if shut, but people reasonably would feel angry if church services are banned whilst you can do shots at the bar down the road.

People could say pubs have no purpose but for people to get off their face.

I'm not religious and a pub person/drinker but just saying the other side argument

Don't forget that churches are used for services other than worship - around here they're the main host for off site after school clubs and pre school nurseries. Close the churches and cripple childcare, again.

This is a ridiculous argument apart from the economic angle. In my area you now book a seat at the church and the seats are either in a family grouping, couple grouping or single seat. You must book the right size block for your family and give names of attendance. The seats are socially distanced.The normal capacity of the venue is 450 and they now have 70 seats. There is not likely to be a spread there. In pubs I’ve seen locally the tables are far too close together, people in different households mingling (perhaps due to the drinking element perhaps not) and the odd drunk guy in the beer garden approaching everyone . There is definitely likely to be more of a spread there. I mean your argument would at least have made a little more sense if it was about restaurants (at which you can also drink) not pubs.

@Emmmie

Our place of worship is still closed and will remain closed for the foreseeable future.

Same as mine and also a lot of them near me are still closed.

My view on pubs is that the majority of pubs, particularly those outside cities, are being responsible and keeping people safe. Unfortunately, city bars and that stupid pub in Stone are attracting damaging media attention and putting all pubs in jeopardy. I wish we could just shut them down and leave the responsible business owners to try and hang on to their livelihoods.

There is no way the OP meant churches. We all know churches are not often well attended. This is clearly a post about other religious places like mosques. I’m sure all religious places are doing their bit. But religious practice doesn’t begin and end at the front door of a building and that’s much harder to police, it’s a very big ask to not visit family yet again. However the non attenders of places of worship are hugely in the majority, and drunk people chatting face to face are a much higher risk than silently listening to a sermon or praying.

We visited a tourist attraction with the understanding numbers were limited and social distancing measures would be in force. The place was packed and many didn’t care how close they were and ignored one way systems. In another place hardly anyone wore masks, inside and close together. I’m relaxed about it personally but this isn’t working and it’s obvious we are going to lock down again in a matter of weeks. Places of worship are not a problem in comparison.

"If places of worship were the only places open the numbers visiting would almost certainly significantly increase simply because people will use them as an excuse to go out."

Pmsl 😆

Don't be ridiculous.
I can only speak for churches rather than mosques, but many churches in England haven't even opened yet, or else are open for private prayer twice a week. Usually no-one in them at these times anyway.

I have been to one church where the service was literally 4 people, it was all extremely distanced, masks on, no singing and everything sanitised including at the door. And the service only lasted 20 minutes.

How on earth that can be worse than a packed pub or even a crowded beach on a hot day beats me. You're more likely to get the virus in the supermarket than in our local church....

There is no way the OP meant churches. We all know churches are not often well attended. This is clearly a post about other religious places like mosques.

Say what now?

There is no way the OP meant churches. We all know churches are not often well attended. This is clearly a post about other religious places like mosques.

If that what the OP meant, I still say churches (or any other places of worship) should remain open ahead of the boozers.