To offer some grammar tips to anyone who might want them?

[UnaCorda]

I sincerely hope this doesn't come across as either rude or patronising - it genuinely isn't meant to. It's also not intended as a pedants' thread.

I just thought it might be useful to list a few common mistakes, with an explanation, so that anyone who isn't very confident with their written English might be able to correct errors which, for example, could perhaps count against them in a job application or when used in a professional context.

I'll start with three:

1. "Your" shows that what you're referring to (probably a person or object) belongs to whoever "you" is in the sentence; for example, "Your brother showed me your book". If you mean "you are" you need to write "you're".

2. "Non" is not a word on its own - it is negating something, such as in "non-stick" or "non-committal". ("None-stick" would be incorrect, as would "non of them".) "None" means there aren't any. "How many cakes are left?" "Sorry - none." Or, "How many of the children finished the test?" "None of them."

3. "Alot" is not a word and the same goes for "abit", "infront", "incase" and "inbetween". Instead use "a lot", etc., just like "a little".

Hope I haven't made any mistakes myself...

@CheetasOnFajitas - sorry, I'd no intention of offending you. I took you referring to 'proper written English' to be a form of value judgment. I do think people might well take it that way?

I may be being hyper-cautious, but I am trying to think how someone might feel if they clicked on this thread. IMO it's one thing to have a discussion in general terms, and something a bit different to make it specific to MN.

Mumsnet is not a classroom and you are not here to teach anyone.

People come to MN to learn all sorts of things. If someone hasn't learned good SPAG earlier for whatever reason, and wants some advice (which is who the OP is addressing, not sniping at posters) then why not?

It's arguable that most people acquire most of their grammatical knowledge - good and bad - from their parents and in particular their mothers. There may be a particular (perhaps excessive?) focus on grammar in schools at the moment but that certainly hasn't been the case in many preceding decades when current posters grew up.

If people come across mistakes anywhere other than Pedants' Corner or a specific thread like this one then imo don't point it out unless the poster is generally an arrogant arse ; maybe just do what we naturally do with our kids which is to model correct usage.

Mumsnet is not a classroom and you are not here to teach anyone.

Well I’ve enjoyed this topic as have others going by responses. It’s easy to ignore.

Thank you. smile I think these particular conjugations have a lot to do with regional dialects, but they would definitely be considered incorrect in a formal or written context (although some, such as "I was sat", have become extremely common).

True, although 'I was sat there dumbfounded' sounds more impactful than 'I was sitting there'.

Please could we have a para on 'literally'. It's become colloquially accepted in the past 2 or 3 years.

@Puffalicious

derxa Where (see what I did there?) In Scotland is where/ wear pronounced differently? Where/ were are very different but here, West coast, where/ wear are exactly the same.

I missed this earlier @Puffalicious.

I am from Stirling. We say “where” with a clearly aspirated “whuh” at the beginning, but “wear” has no aspiration. The vowels and the “r” sound exactly the same between the two words. Does that help?

True, although 'I was sat there dumbfounded' sounds more impactful than 'I was sitting there'.

It doesn't to me because the main impact of that sentence for me is that "I was sat" is incorrect. (Sorry if that sounds pompous!) It probably comes down to what you're used to hearing or saying.

@elenacampana

Ex English teacher and grammar specialist here... in my professional opinion I’d say keep your grammar tips to yourself.

Mumsnet is not a classroom and you are not here to teach anyone.

Fair enough... but plenty of people have been interested in the discussion for one reason or another.

I think these particular conjugations have a lot to do with regional dialects

A lot of people where I live (Midlands) - including teachers - say and write things like "I've took" instead of "I've taken" or "he has grew" instead of "he has grown".

@elenacampana

Ex English teacher and grammar specialist here... in my professional opinion I’d say keep your grammar tips to yourself.

Mumsnet is not a classroom and you are not here to teach anyone.

A lot of people are enjoying this thread judging by the comments so I would advise keeping your "professional" opinions to yourself.

Mumsnet is not a classroom and you are not here to teach anyone.

But (yes, I know that’s breaks a rule) with all due respect, most of us learn something new every day. Why should that not come from MN as opposed to the news, Wikipedia, Popbitch or whatever?

MN might not be a classroom, but it has taught me a lot. This thread was started in good faith, and I’m finding it informative and interesting. If it’s not to your liking, other threads are available.

*...that breaks...

Thanks Una that does help.

But (yes, I know that’s breaks a rule)

It's not incorrect to begin a sentence with a conjunction. It can be a useful device for adding emphasis.

How about the difference between
phased, happening in gradual stages, and
fazed, disconcerted or disturbed.

Eg, ‘I was gradually phased out,’ or ‘he was going through a difficult phase.’

Alternatively, ‘I wasn’t fazed by it in the slightest.’

Mumsnet is not a classroom and you are not here to teach anyone.

Go away. This is a great thread. Hide it if it doesn’t interest you.

@MillicentMartha

How about the difference between phased, happening in gradual stages, and fazed, disconcerted or disturbed.

Eg, ‘I was gradually phased out,’ or ‘he was going through a difficult phase.’

Alternatively, ‘I wasn’t fazed by it in the slightest.’

'Phased' in place of 'fazed' has become absolutely endemic. It's very irritating.

A homophone which I have seen muddled a lot lately:

a pallet is a flat platform, usually wood, used for lifting items on a forklift truck.

the palate is part of your mouth and used figuratively to describe someone's tastes - 'she has a very adventurous palate'

a palette is used for mixing colours, and therefore by extension also means a combination of colours, make-up, etc.

[quote SarahAndQuack]@amicissima - ah, perhaps I am misremembering and that is what he used to quote too! It must have been a standard example they grew up with.

I never used to find [my mother would disapprove of that construction] the use of 'can' for 'may' irritating until I had a toddler. Now I find it intensely annoying when she says 'Can I have chocolate' (or worse 'I have chocolate NOW') and I spend my life replying sweetly 'I think you mean "may I please"'.[/quote]
DD1 has speech/language difficulties as part of her SEN - when she was little, she would say 'I want bowl eat'.

As I a complete pedant, it always seemed ironic that she developed her language that way!

I like this thread! It's not patronising. OP isn't running all over other threads, randomly correcting people; she's providing a space for it. If you don't like it you can ignore it.
By the way, did I use that semi colon correctly?

By the way, did I use that semi colon correctly?

Perfectly. (Was that patronising enough? )

@MillicentMartha

How about the difference between phased, happening in gradual stages, and fazed, disconcerted or disturbed.

Eg, ‘I was gradually phased out,’ or ‘he was going through a difficult phase.’

Alternatively, ‘I wasn’t fazed by it in the slightest.’

I suspect it's a sort of over correction error. "Fazed" does look like a phonetic misspelling of "phased". Perhaps in some people's minds there's a subconscious idea of being stunned by a phaser?

It’s bated breath, not baited breath.

Bated is related to abate - pause, stop. Bated breath means to stop breathing. It has nothing to do with bait to tempt or capture your prey. Your breath is not the bait for anything.

WinneLo
People who said 'I done/I seen' were known by the private school clique at Univerisity as 'Seeners and Doners'. Their contempt was palpable. The viciousness of the judgement shocked me.

Years later, my beautiful, clever niece who could run rings round these fuckers, made these basic mistakes. I corrected her and explained why, that I couldn't bear that her entire character and capability might be judged by such savage bitchiness. She was hurt and confused and embarrassed, being used to being a high achiever but very aware of her very working class background. I have no doubt that it was in her best interest to tell her.

This thread is great. There is no snobbery in understanding grammar, and it wards off the judgement of snobs with very little in their arsenal.

How do you get the grades to go to University if you don’t know that “I done” and “I seen” are incorrect?

Well said and well done @Dances.

I don't understand why some people seem so intent on being offended on behalf of others who they are assuming will be offended, when in fact most people who have commented on this thread have found it helpful, whether or not they are experts in grammar.