To offer some grammar tips to anyone who might want them?

[UnaCorda]

I sincerely hope this doesn't come across as either rude or patronising - it genuinely isn't meant to. It's also not intended as a pedants' thread.

I just thought it might be useful to list a few common mistakes, with an explanation, so that anyone who isn't very confident with their written English might be able to correct errors which, for example, could perhaps count against them in a job application or when used in a professional context.

I'll start with three:

1. "Your" shows that what you're referring to (probably a person or object) belongs to whoever "you" is in the sentence; for example, "Your brother showed me your book". If you mean "you are" you need to write "you're".

2. "Non" is not a word on its own - it is negating something, such as in "non-stick" or "non-committal". ("None-stick" would be incorrect, as would "non of them".) "None" means there aren't any. "How many cakes are left?" "Sorry - none." Or, "How many of the children finished the test?" "None of them."

3. "Alot" is not a word and the same goes for "abit", "infront", "incase" and "inbetween". Instead use "a lot", etc., just like "a little".

Hope I haven't made any mistakes myself...

Surely it’s not controversial to say that colloquial/vernacular expressions are acceptable in speech but should not generally be written down (unless you are going full Irvine Welsh)?

In general, but I'm not convinced that the rules fully apply on social media - it's often more "typed speech" than proper writing as such.

Somewhere on this thread a poster asked whether it was true that Scottish people use “shall” and “will” differently to English people.

In general, we don’t use “shall” at all. My family were all quite well-spoken (my Dad was a newsreader!) but would have said things like “will we go to the park today?” or “will we have a fish supper for our tea?”. I had a boss in a job in England who would rib me for saying things like “Will I make that point to them in the letter?” when I was asking him to tell me whether or not I should include it. He’d say “I don’t know, will you?”.
I do say “shall” now when talking to DS eg “Shall we feed the ducks?” because I have now lived in London for most of my life and it’s what he hears around him, but it does feel to me a little bit as if I have stepped into the pages of an Enid Blyton book.

@ErrolTheDragon

Surely it’s not controversial to say that colloquial/vernacular expressions are acceptable in speech but should not generally be written down (unless you are going full Irvine Welsh)?

In general, but I'm not convinced that the rules fully apply on social media - it's often more "typed speech" than proper writing as such.

I think that the use of proper written English is the key differentiator between Mumsnet and Netmums @ErrolTheDragon!

I think that the use of proper written English is the key differentiator between Mumsnet and Netmums @ErrolTheDragon!

I think that may have been true but MN seems to be picking up a somewhat broader demographic now. I don't know what the content of the thread cited was, but if it was someone looking for parenting advice I hope no one was dickish enough to pull the OP up on their grammar.
(OTOH, posts in Pedants' corner containing SPAG errors are fair game.)

Sock Yarn you are wrong about es/está cansada in Spanish
It's more complicated than this, but to simplify es comes from ser. Ser is to be when describing something.
Está comes from estar. Estar is to be for location or temporary situations (like tiredness).

You are right that there are various pronouns for 'you', some formal, informal, singular or plural. And none need to be used as the verb ending shows who is being addressed.

Anyway, back to English.

@CheetasOnFajitas

OP I’m really intrigued that you chose “non” when used to mean “none” as an example of a common mistake. I don’t think I have ever seen that.

I have noticed this a lot, but only recently.

It seems nonsensical to me, but I pronounce the two words differently (non like non, none like nun). If you pronounce them the same, I can see why you might confuse them.

Once you notice it, you can’t stop noticing it!

Non/none is an annoying one.
I don’t think iPhones help things though, as mine always seems to correct ‘on’ to ‘in’ when I type. 🙄

@UnaCorda

I sincerely hope this doesn't come across as either rude or patronising - it genuinely isn't meant to. It's also not intended as a pedants' thread.

I just thought it might be useful to list a few common mistakes, with an explanation, so that anyone who isn't very confident with their written English might be able to correct errors which, for example, could perhaps count against them in a job application or when used in a professional context.

I'll start with three:

1. "Your" shows that what you're referring to (probably a person or object) belongs to whoever "you" is in the sentence; for example, "Your brother showed me your book". If you mean "you are" you need to write "you're".

2. "Non" is not a word on its own - it is negating something, such as in "non-stick" or "non-committal". ("None-stick" would be incorrect, as would "non of them".) "None" means there aren't any. "How many cakes are left?" "Sorry - none." Or, "How many of the children finished the test?" "None of them."

3. "Alot" is not a word and the same goes for "abit", "infront", "incase" and "inbetween". Instead use "a lot", etc., just like "a little".

Hope I haven't made any mistakes myself...

I really need a basic guide to good English and grammar mistakes.

I was a good student 7 A's, 5Bs at gcse, love reading, degree and professional exams.

Now in a senior management position I am still nervous about making grammar mistakes. To the extent I avoid writing on flip charts because of my grammar and spelling mistakes

English is my second language and my parents would help me with spelling but could never teach me grammar and I don't remember being taught grammar at school.

Re split infinitives, the ‘correct‘ way can sound pompous and over-pedantic even to a nitpicking pedant like me. It’s all going to depend on how it rolls off the tongue. ‘To boldly go...’ rolls nicely, whereas ‘To go boldly...’ sounds clunky. To me, anyway.

In any case, I once read that we only have this rule because the 18th century grammarians who introduced it, regarded Latin as their model language, and since you can’t split a Latin infinitive, they decreed that the same should apply to English.
Which to me is plain daft.

There’s a similar thing about prepositions/conjunctions at the end of sentences, so that, ‘What are you working on?’ should in strict pedant-speak be, ‘On what are you working?’

IIRC Churchill made his views on this sort of pedantry clear when he said (or wrote) ‘This is the sort of thing up with which I will not put.’

I agree with you about number 1 as homonyms can be useful to point out.

But if enough people and writers were to adopt the spellings and usage of 2 and/or 3, these would in fact become correct spelling. Language evolves.

That's fantastic. DC's were old enough to speak property they had adopted the laziness from peers.

ok ta

I have seen an increase of “I’m going Tesco” rather than “I’m going to Tesco” over the past few years. Why is this, has Tesco suddenly become an activity?

Could you explain when to use whose vs who's?

And learnt/learned?

@nicelyneurotic

Could you explain when to use whose vs who's?

And learnt/learned?

Who’s - use it if you can substitute “who is” in the sentence.

Eg who’s coming to the park? Who’s a pretty boy then?

Whose- use where something belongs to someon
Eg “I saw a boy whose coat was green”
“I have a friend whose colleagues are really rude”

Learned and learnt are just alternatives; both are correct so it doesn’t matter which you use. Best to stay consistent and use the same one throughout a piece of writing.

Oh- “who’s” also used if the substitute is “who has” eg “who’s got time to do this?”

But if enough people and writers were to adopt the spellings and usage of 2 and/or 3, these would in fact become correct spelling. Language evolves.

Not always usefully though. Maybe 'alot' wouldn't matter, but e.g. the mutation of "disinterested" to merely be an alternative of "uninterested" is a loss of a distinct word and makes older books harder to understand.

Ditto pronouncing "where" differently from "wear". In Scotland this is completely normal.

He is proud of having a good command of English. I just hurt him. I regret it.

I don't know why you regret correcting him; he seemed perfectly happy to correct you!

derxa Where (see what I did there?) In Scotland is where/ wear pronounced differently? Where/ were are very different but here, West coast, where/ wear are exactly the same.

I think that the use of proper written English is the key differentiator between Mumsnet and Netmums

I've been on Mumsnet this past decade and people regularly make this claim, then say it's all going to the dogs/getting a more inclusive dynamic (chose your poison).

Back when I started posting, people were sighing in a worldly-wise way and saying 'I've been on Mumsnet since it were all fields and we've always been having this argument'.

'Proper written English' is all very well, but it shouldn't be an excuse to make people who post on here without it feel shit. This thread hasn't been personal so it seems a shame to make it so.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_of_English_%E2%9F%A8wh%E2%9F%A9
Where/ were are very different but here, West coast, where/ wear are exactly the same.e
That may be true for you but not for everyone else

@SarahAndQuack

I think that the use of proper written English is the key differentiator between Mumsnet and Netmums

I've been on Mumsnet this past decade and people regularly make this claim, then say it's all going to the dogs/getting a more inclusive dynamic (chose your poison).

Back when I started posting, people were sighing in a worldly-wise way and saying 'I've been on Mumsnet since it were all fields and we've always been having this argument'.

'Proper written English' is all very well, but it shouldn't be an excuse to make people who post on here without it feel shit. This thread hasn't been personal so it seems a shame to make it so.

How on earth did I “make it personal” @SarahAndQuack?

It was an observation, nothing more, and not about individuals, about two whole forums. It was a response to the suggestion that people “on social media” tend to write in a conversational way.

You inferred a value judgment; I did not imply one. I have been on both forums I find that NM posts tend to be people writing as they might speak, whereas Mumsnet posts are usually more structured and formal. Nowhere did I say that informal style should not be permitted on Mumsnet, or that poster’s should be shamed for it. However birds of a feather flock together and it’s natural that newcomers will imitate the style of the majority of posts.

Rogue autocorrect apostrophe in “posters” there!

@derxa

Ditto pronouncing "where" differently from "wear". In Scotland this is completely normal.

Yup. Same reason why Scottish people never get puns involving Wales and whales- the words sound completely different to us!