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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbour in our garden, WWYD?

256 replies

Biscoffscoff · 30/07/2020 19:20

First of all, apologies now for lack of diagram, I have no idea how to upload one! And sorry it's a long one, it's hard to explain...

We live in an area of old miners cottages. It's common in our town for shared gardens, or gardens with rights of way across them (which these days are used for putting wheelie bins out). We bought our house two years ago. Having a private garden was a big plus for this house we chose, or so we thought!

We are in a row of 8 or so terrace houses. Ours, and the houses to the right of us, have longer gardens and parking access at the back to garages that are at the bottom of the gardens. This is via a small lane. The lane originally led to a park. One of our neighbors told us that there was a lot of anti social behaviour with the park/lane opening onto the gardens. So at some point the park land was fenced off and it was agreed the lane could be gated, so those of us that have garages have a key. All our neighbours have lived here since before the land was fenced.

The neighbour on the left of us doesn't have a garage, and his garden is shorter than ours, he backs onto the park. He used to be able to access his back garden from the end of the lane/start of the park. There is a gate in his garden because of this. When it was fenced, the access from the lane ends at the end of our garden. The neighbours gate opens into our garden.

The previous owner of our house was an elderly woman who didnt mind the neighbour cutting across her garden when the fencing went up. Her son was quite savvy and keen for this not to become a right, so he got a solicitor to draw up a licence agreement which ensured it was goodwill only.

When we bought the house this was explained to us by the EA and owners son. The son told us he'd explained to the neighbour the access ended with the sale, and he'd have to approach us if he wanted it renewed. He never did, we never met him, we thought that was that. Not long after we moved in, the other neighbours approached us about putting money in to replace the gate to the lane also, and that gate is locked. We assumed that there was no access for the neighbour.

In lockdown we've been working from home, and in the first few weeks noticed from the window a couple of times someone walking through our garden. We spoke to the neighbour who had arranged the replacement gate and they told us yes, they'd given a key to the neighbour next to us as he's always had access and presumed he needed a key. They were very apologetic as they thought we knew he had access.

In normal circs we would have knocked on to speak to him but as we don't know him at all and this was at the point of lockdown where everyone was very jittery, didn't think it was a good idea to go round.

The old lady didn't use the garden much and we've been using it a lot in lockdown. We hadn't seen him in the garden for a while and thought he must have stopped using it, now that it's very obviously in use (garden furniture out etc)

Today I came in through the garden and found the neighbour in the garden. Not only in the garden, but cutting the hedge - OUR hedge - that runs from the gate across the back of our garden! Presumably he's doing this to keep his access clear!

I would love to be one of those people who blurt things out but I'm not. I was walking through with my heavy shopping and he gave me a cheery wave as though this was entirely normal.
I stopped and stuttered something about how I had been planning to wait until the autumn because of nesting birds. He told me he'd checked them and it was no trouble because he's retired. I walked in the house and unfortunately it was only then that my brain caught up with a WTF!

So not only does he clearly think this is the norm for him to be in our garden, he thinks he's doing me a favour by doing my gardening!

It's really frustrating that because we're out at work so much we had no idea that he was using this access for the first eighteen months we've lived here, and clearly he and the other neighbours (they are friends) think this is entirely normal.

I want to reclaim my garden back but with it being so long and with me making small talk with him I've no idea how to go about this.
Im also aware that if it hadnt been for lockdown we wouldn't have known he was doing this so part of me feels like I'm being a bit petty to say no now, when it's been happening without bothering us before, and will likely be the same again when I'm back in work in September.
But equally I don't want to give up having a private garden due to British politeness.

WWYD?

OP posts:
callmeadoctor · 30/07/2020 22:25

So did your neighbour pay towards the fence as well? Is the fence building legal in the first place? Did your neighbour have a say in it? Why is the gate there anyway? (All these questions.............)

kerrycgeorgie · 30/07/2020 22:28

I think I would definitely start with a conversation. Don't escalate the situation with legal stuff before necessary, and hopefully it isn't necessary.
My main concerns would be 1) safety and security of DC - gate open, gardening tools used to cut hedges. This will be a growing concern as your dc gets older/family expands. 2) barrier to selling the house at a future point.

I would be inclined to be honest, say that you didn't realize until working from home that he was accessing the garden, explain that you have concerns over safety and privacy etc.
If you go down a route of saying access is allowed at certain days and times that might create more problems - what if you have a day off work and you will be home do you need to tell him that there's a change to the agreement. What if you have guests with children etc. What if he has guests.

Flatpackback · 30/07/2020 22:29

Well if you want to alienate yourself from all your neighbours and become that person who no one speaks to or has a good word for, then go ahead and tell him to stop. You could well be creating a hostile environment for yourself but that is your choice.

Biscoffscoff · 30/07/2020 22:31

@XingMing and @Laiste that sounds similar to where we are. Tbh this area historically was very poor, lots of these houses would have been rented (whole streets owned by the businesses who built them) so defining one house from another, or the start and end of a dirt track just wasn't a priority back when the houses were built.

If our other neighbours weren't clearly supportive of this arrangement I would be more inclined to think he's a CF. But from what I've heard he's a nice guy and he worked in the local community a long time before retiring, he's well respected. It's an area where neighbours know each other and help each other out. It was the family who owned our house before us who actually had a reputation for being CFs as they had a rep for being stingy!

It would be simpler if we had young kids or a dog as that would be a very easy reason to give for enforcing our right to privacy. In the absence of pregnancy, dogs, or the £££'s it would require to reorganize the garden, it would be very evident that the reason we were asking him to stop is just because we didn't want him to use it. Which as I've mentioned I understand we are fully legally allowed to do, but I wasn't convinced it was the 'right' thing to do given the neighbourly dynamics and that it has been going on while we've lived here without our knowledge, but quite possibly with him thinking it was with our agreement. If we'd known when we first moved in we would have spoken to him straight away, and when we realised it was a few weeks into lockdown, when I wouldn't have wanted a stranger to knock on my door for a chat and so didn't do that to him.

Once we've decided what to do, it'll def be a conversation first. I don't do notes through the door, and there's no need for a solicitors letter at this point. I mean, I hate to admit it but he's actually done a nice job of the hedge Blush

OP posts:
kerrycgeorgie · 30/07/2020 22:36

Sorry, thought I'd read at some point a DC. Not tempted to get a dog to ease the awkwardness? 😂 Maybe he maintained the garden for the previous owner, maybe he is invested in the hedges somehow! Hard to know but he doesn't sound like a CF to me, probably a bit bored and thinking he is being helpful

RHRA · 30/07/2020 22:36

It’s a frustrating situation you’ve found yourself in OP. You probably just want a quiet life but are being forced to deal with something provocative; by that I mean the hedge-cutting. I’d possibly turn a blind eye to the accessing if it was unobtrusive, but the hedge-cutting is a very proprietary act. Send your husband round to talk to him ASAP and good luck.

NoProblem123 · 30/07/2020 22:38

CFer neighbours are my absolute favourite threads, and a good diagram to boot - splendid Grin

He knows. He’s taking advantage of his unexpected key & the fact you’re not normally there.

Change the lock. Say nothing. Report back !

Flatpackback · 30/07/2020 22:40

Can you live with it? I say this as someone who has had an absolute pain in the arse living next door for the past ten years. However, she is old and in poor health so I accommodate it because I don’t want her death on my conscience. I also like a peaceful life and disputes once stared rarely end well for either side, they just escalate.

Biscoffscoff · 30/07/2020 22:41

The lane at the back - I'm not sure how its termed, but its access, it is really a dirt track and those of us with parking have the responsibility to maintain it.

Fence - was paid for by previous owner. I don't know the circs, I would be very surprised if previous owner put it in without agreement. Like I said she was very particular about the garden, I suspect she may have paid because she wanted it a certain way.
Btw in case I've confused things, we bought from previous owners son and his wife, they inherited the property after she passed. They didn't live in it but hung onto it for a while. I've heard that the elderly lady was very nice, it was the son and wife who had the bad rep.

OP posts:
Hileni · 30/07/2020 22:43

Can you make the bottom of the garden into a pond? Or keep chickens in that section? A territorial goose?

raspberryk · 30/07/2020 22:45

I honestly don't think I could get worked up about this

Biscoffscoff · 30/07/2020 22:46

Ok I love the idea of a territorial goose!

OP posts:
HerkyBaby · 30/07/2020 22:47

Crikey wish I had the type of neighbours who would do a spot of gardening for me without prompting. Personally I’d make friends with him, he’s retired , possibly lonely and looking for something to do. Perhaps you could ask him to help with a spot of gardening on your terms . Please be kind - he’s not intentionally trying to annoy you and it is added security for your home . Covid has shown all of us how important our neighbours are. Why not ask him round for a cup of tea and find out a bit about him you could be pleasantly surprised by your neighbour instead of annoyed.

RandomMess · 30/07/2020 22:48

You can always say you are getting a rescue dog (that never materialises - or borrow one/dog sit for friends?) and the garden needs to be secured permanently ready for pre-adoption inspection...

Biscoffscoff · 30/07/2020 22:48

@raspberryk like I said earlier I was prepared to buy a house with access across gardens when we bought in the area - we'd rented with those conditions. It was just that I liked my private garden as I've never had one before and finding the neighbour in it when I walked through, burst my bubble somewhat!

OP posts:
VanGoghsDog · 30/07/2020 23:03

@Hippywannabe

Maybe I missed it but who owns the actual lane, who decided to fence off the parkland and who decided to install a gate to the lane originally? For instance, how would an ambulance get to him?
You did miss it, yes.

The council did the work.

An ambulance would draw up to the front door, like in any street!

Jux · 30/07/2020 23:10

It really doesn't matter that he's been continuing to use your garden for the last 18 months. You didn't know he was trespassing then, now you do and are doing something about it.

He does not have the right to go into your garden for any reason - no more right than he does to go in my garden!

Don't pussy-foot around. You know he's been told, it doesn't matter that there's no proof of that - equally there's no proof that he wasn't told.

He knows he's not allowed in your garden. Remind him.

Why can't you put a couple of fence panels up blocking the gate between your two gardens? Trellis? large plant pots with climbers? There are lots of thing you could do.. Be a little inventive.

WingingItSince1973 · 30/07/2020 23:13

I would hate anyone to use my garden as a cut through as we have dogs and kids. How can you guarantee it will be only him cutting through? What if he had a bbq?? Also think its totally bizarre on his part that agter 18months he hasn't introduced himself to you especially as he uses your garden. If the previous owner son had sent a letter saying the cut through would end after the sale but hes ignoring that then he is cheeky. It may be a nice neighbourly thing done many years ago but times change. You can still be polite and civilised. You do need to talk to him about it but get all your facts straight first. If you legally can't touch his/your gate then i would tell him it is being lawfully blocked with something. Many may jump on me for being antisocial but you bought the house on the understanding it wouldn't be shared access. Does leaving your house via the front door cause that much extra time on a journey? Surely he would jusy be walking the length of the row and then up the side to get to the lane x

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 30/07/2020 23:13

If he had been doing this for the last 18 months without me even noticing, I’d probably not bother with a confrontation.
He’s obviously not hurting anything

chopc · 30/07/2020 23:13

I don't understand why there is a gate from his garden to yours? What is the purpose of that? @Biscoffscoff

billy1966 · 30/07/2020 23:14

I hope I haven't miss read, but I would change the lock and take any conversation that follows as a clarification convo!

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 30/07/2020 23:14

@raspberryk

I honestly don't think I could get worked up about this
Same
PicsInRed · 30/07/2020 23:19

It's quite rural and it would be the talk of the town if we started sending solicitors letters or pouring concrete to block gates!

Well, putting up with it is as valid a choice as any. 🤷‍♀️

k1233 · 30/07/2020 23:21

Is there a reason the last two houses without garages can't pay to put in 2 gates - a shared one behind their gardens and then a second into the laneway (providing laneway owners agree). That would solve the problem for everyone. Maybe sell the idea as everyone having independent access to the lane.

PineappleSquosh · 30/07/2020 23:26

I would not permit this. The gate needs to be removed, not just locked. It’ll be off putting for a future buyer when you come to sell so you’ll have to do it eventually, might as well do it now. The neighbour will have to accept having no rear access to his house - many houses don’t. Put up a new fence panel and politely tell him you won’t be permitting access any more.