BAME risk...It's not about ethnicity is it?

[MindTheRiskPlease]

Surely this whole "BAME" (nonsense term btw) people at risk of Covid is not about race ethnicity, is it?

If so, I don't see a great number of people being affected in "BAME" countries. Cases and Deaths are much much lower than that of the UK.

I live in a small town. Everyone is going about their business and following guidelines. Is 'the rona' coming to find me then because... "race" or is there more to it than that?

If two people (one "BAME", other not) come in contact with a covid patient, would the virus "choose" the BAME person and not the other? Wouldn't they both be at risk, depending on some factors? (What has ethnicity go to do with it?)

AIBU to think this whole "BAME people are more at risk" is a bit of a fallacious statement and has to be broken down to factors like geographical location, health, age, job, etc to actually be accurate?

Could be both, perhaps?

@CeibaTree thank you for your first response, it was helpful. Your second however...

What does knowing where someone is from have to do with how you communicate with them?? People are just all human beings with varying shades of skin colour. This is one of the most ignorant things I've read on MN for a while..

Really? Or perhaps you misunderstood what I was asking? A previous poster said they felt unacknowledged being put under the BAME umbrella. Yet we know asking directly where someone is from is offensive too. I want to know how NOT to do that. How to find out how people want to be referred to without lumping them in as BAME and without asking directly where they're from.

Perhaps you could try not being quite so desperate to attack what you perceive to be "ignorance" or "racism" and try to think well of people and understand that mostly they're trying to get it right, as I certainly was. There's ignorance on this thread alright. Yours.

It's a bit racist to give £4m to research this but not research why men particularly white men who are older get it very badly too surely? There are many more men in the UK than there are BAME men so in terms of money well spent and limited resources looking at why men get it worse than women might be a fairer investment of £4m.

In Brooklyn the ultra- Orthodox Jewish community has been hit very badly

This was also true in the UK - althought it was the Jewish community and not limited to ultra-orthodoxy

I knew three white male doctors who had covid - all were jewish. None of them would have gone to community events during lockdown. One was on a covid ward, two were in "green" zones.

There has been some stuff about men and they tried giving HRT at one points as a treatment!

It is mainly thought to be due to differences in the immune system, something about having two X chromosomes gives women an advantage

And women have higher rates of some autoimmune conditions due to this as well. Quite interesting

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/apr/19/the-better-half-on-the-genetic-superiority-of-women-review-bold-study-of-chromosomal-advantage

My daughter has sarcoidosis which is more common in people with a West African heritage. She is more at risk of a worse outcome from Covid because of this and more likely to catch it because of the immunosuppresants used to treat it.

and www.nytimes.com/2020/02/20/health/coronavirus-men-women.html

Seriously Xenia? You want money spent determining why men over 75 have a high mortality rate?

Seriously Xenia? You want money spent determining why white men over 75 have a high mortality rate?

I don't think Xenia mentioned age did she?

Oh sorry yes she did. Age, sex and ethnicity are all risk factors...

Vitamin D? How I wept when NICE reviewed the evidence for vitamin D and covid. Bloody morons

I don’t think it is as cut and dried of if you are BAME you are more susceptible.

I know a large number from the BAME community. None are from multi person households or work in a customer facing role. Most are WFH and have been really careful.
Some have had Covid. However what I have noticed is some who have had Covid and family members have had Covid have all recovered whilst others have had it so much worse and family members have died because of it.

I was wondering whether there was a link to someone’s genetics.

In South Asian community there is a amount of marrying cousins ect which puts people more at risk, and before Mumsnet deleted there is a high incidence of disability, defects because of this.

@MindTheRiskPlease

I've just realise two or more posts have been deleted and I'm trying to remember what was said. The recent one I think mentioned their experience re: a group of people not wearing masks and i think if this is someone's experience, there's no need to delete it just because they mentioned a particular group. I didn't think they were being nasty, just stating their observation.

I just asked MN why my post was deleted and it was because it was reported as inflammatory. TBH that certainly wasn’t my intention and I apologise to anyone I offended. I expect the various posts that have quoted mine will shortly be removed too.

@LordEmsworth says it perfectly

@Choukette

In Brooklyn the ultra- Orthodox Jewish community has been hit very badly

This was also true in the UK - althought it was the Jewish community and not limited to ultra-orthodoxy

I knew three white male doctors who had covid - all were jewish. None of them would have gone to community events during lockdown. One was on a covid ward, two were in "green" zones.

Yes I read it was affecting the whole Jewish community more, not just the ultra orthodox. Which suggests a potential genetic risk? They have other genetic risks (I saw a documentary on the BRCA cancer gene) so it's plausible. Possibly the same issue, a genetic risk, for some others in the BAME community too?

What seems clear, regardless of ethnicity or race, diabetes is a major risk factor. One in four of the deaths. I hope if there's a big increase in cases and/or future lockdowns, diabetics are given the protection of shielding this time round.

My point was limited money. 50% of population are male and 12% are not white so if you have £4m to spend where it is of most use surely you investigate why men suffer rather than BAME people? I just thought the only reason they went for BAME not men was because of public concern and pressure which didn't seem a good economic and fair reason.

"15.21% of the UK population is aged over 70. "

The high risk group for bad outcomes from covid. 15% is Kind of similar to 12%.

Well generally amongst these communities there was a lack of care about the lockdown or following the COVID rules and not taking it seriously. I live in an area with a high BAME population, seen it all. I don't know if education has anything to do with it. I know it's not PC but when the news mentions how BAME communities are more at risk, this is what they mean.

I thought it was men over 50 (not 70) at increased risk?

Are men more prone to diabetes and cardiovascular disease perhaps?

Interesting about women being more prone to autoimmune diseases. I think deaths in this group is fairly low? Immunosuppressants increase the risk of catching coronavirus but it looks like they might lower the chance of serious illness developing.

@YgritteSnow

*@CeibaTree* thank you for your first response, it was helpful. Your second however...

What does knowing where someone is from have to do with how you communicate with them?? People are just all human beings with varying shades of skin colour. This is one of the most ignorant things I've read on MN for a while..

Really? Or perhaps you misunderstood what I was asking? A previous poster said they felt unacknowledged being put under the BAME umbrella. Yet we know asking directly where someone is from is offensive too. I want to know how NOT to do that. How to find out how people want to be referred to without lumping them in as BAME and without asking directly where they're from.

Perhaps you could try not being quite so desperate to attack what you perceive to be "ignorance" or "racism" and try to think well of people and understand that mostly they're trying to get it right, as I certainly was. There's ignorance on this thread alright. Yours.

Ha! I'm not desperate to attack anyone by any means, but I really can't fathom why you need to know where someone (or more likely their ancestors) is from to be able to communicate 'respectfully' with them. That is basically saying you see non-white people as 'other' and that is the very essence of racism. I'm sorry you can't see that. You want to know how to relate to other people of differing skin colours? Just treat everyone the same surely no matter their appearance, and if people choose to tell you their ethnic identity then that's up to them, but for ffs don't ask them if it's not relevant to whatever interaction you are having with them.

I don’t believe it and I have never done. Mainly for the reason you said OP. Other ethnic Countries would be in a far worse state if that was the case... these BAME countries have poorer healthcare systems too. I think the reason the idea was thought up was so we can be tested on first as though we are in greater need than Non BAME people.

I think we BAME people are at no more risk than Non BAME people. A lot of nurses come from ethnic backgrounds so if this is what adds up to the theory I think it’s a bit weak. Lack of Vitamin D.... I just don’t buy that one either.

@YgritteSnow

*@CeibaTree* thank you for your first response, it was helpful. Your second however...

What does knowing where someone is from have to do with how you communicate with them?? People are just all human beings with varying shades of skin colour. This is one of the most ignorant things I've read on MN for a while..

Really? Or perhaps you misunderstood what I was asking? A previous poster said they felt unacknowledged being put under the BAME umbrella. Yet we know asking directly where someone is from is offensive too. I want to know how NOT to do that. How to find out how people want to be referred to without lumping them in as BAME and without asking directly where they're from.

Perhaps you could try not being quite so desperate to attack what you perceive to be "ignorance" or "racism" and try to think well of people and understand that mostly they're trying to get it right, as I certainly was. There's ignorance on this thread alright. Yours.

I've already explained on this thread - please do not ask someone with an obvious non-white British background where they are from. It's a loaded question which will cause upset.

The more British someone is, the more they will silently tut and get internally wound up, but I promise you, pretty much everyone who isn't white who gets asked where they're from is getting upset at you not knowing the difference between 'where did you grow up?' and 'what is is your ethnic origin?'

It's funny how 'where you are you from?' never means 'where are you from?' if you're not white. You have to remember, many of us grew up in the UK. Where were are from is here. The colour of our skin is not always linked to where we are from. It's linked to the ethnic origin of our parents.