AIBU to leave 8 & 10 year alone to go out to dinner?

[BereftOfInk]

DH has suggested we go out to dinner together and leave the DC home alone. His parents often did this once he turned 10. I don't know if I'm being over protective as I was never left alone as a child. We live in a block of flats and would let our direct neighbours know they were alone, DC know them and could go and knock if they needed help for any reason. They offered to do this a while ago, but we thought the DC were too young so didn't. Neighbour suggested it as it's what her parents did when she was young (she wouldn't want to sit in our flat with them).

Get them ready for bed, stick a film on and let them go to bed when tired/fall asleep on the sofa. Acceptable or not?

Popping out for 10 mins, fine. Not dinner.

I had a colleague who was a single mum, and her kids were the same ages as yours. She used to leave them in the evenings to do cash in hand shifts as a waitress.

A neighbor reported her for it, and she had the SS all over her. She was told not to do to leave her kids in the evening.

Off topic - she was also claiming benefits and was in the shit up to her neck. Result, eventual eviction because she was unable to pay her rent.

I don’t even leave my 18 year old alone with her siblings in the evening to go out. She is very sensible and trustworthy but it still makes me uncomfortable. I have left her with her teenage siblings in the day for a couple of hours but not the younger kids

I'm sure you're aware this is your personal issue though, you're not actually advocating that this is sensible advice for the majority of families?!

I don’t even leave my 18 year old alone with her siblings in the evening to go out. She is very sensible and trustworthy but it still makes me uncomfortable. I have left her with her teenage siblings in the day for a couple of hours but not the younger kids

Jesus you always get one 😂

I was living by myself with a baby by then!

Also many are married, in the army etc...

I think there's definitely a cultural issue here. My family members who have lived in Germany and Switzerland, have a very different community life too. They lived in flats and while they weren't all friends, the blocks are definitely a community and it would be perfectly normal for a child to feel comfortable turning up at the door of another neighbour to ask for something or whatever. And I notice when we're out and about with them the grown ups will often exchange words in passing with random children - I'm not sure if they know them or are just exchanging greets (I don't speak German) but it's not considered weird.

Of course yabu!!they are small dependent children.Why would you even consider doing this?then you add to the bu by justifying your thoughts in your following posts!.
As for telling other residents there will be two small children left alone in a flat one evening,I can't believe you are actually serious.
Please don't do this to them.

Why don’t you ask on a German parenting site, OP? If that’s what they do over there, other parents will confirm.

It does leave you in a weird place.
Yes, this is so true! Culture clashes over things you'd never expected. I'm most definitely considered a helicopter parent!

What about if something happened to you or your DH when out? Car accident as an example, no one knows you have children home alone.
Well, this is why we would tell the neighbour.

So, are there more crossing patrols in these European countries?
I don't know about elsewhere, but here it's the kids from the top primary class.

At that age (and with that age difference) I was clear that the 10yo wasn't in charge, it was more of a safety-in-numbers thing.
For clarification, the 10 year old would not be "in charge" I expect them both to behave.

I'm not originally from the UK, but my son was born and brought up in England till the age of seven, and there were definitely absolutely alien things in the parenting norms I encountered, so I hear you on that, OP.

But unlike you I was from the more 'permissive'/independence-valuing parenting culture myself (and DH is from the same place) so we went with our own norms, not what we saw around us. I imagine it's harder doing it the other way round, where your ingrained cultural impulses are to be more protective.

I certainly learned a lot about middle-class English parenting through encountering the norms DS's friends and classmates were growing up with. Have your children lived in Germany all their lives? What do your German friends and acquaintances do? Do your children's classmates spend the kind of evening home alone you're discussing?

I’m 41 and was regularly left during the day with my older brother who was 10. My mum worked part time so was home by lunchtime (1.30) and my dad worked shifts so he’d usually be either at work or in bed. We were always late risers on weekends and holidays so by the time my mum got home we’d probably be just dressed.

For nights out though there was always a babysitter until we got to secondary school age.

I lived in south germany and in switzerland for a great number of years and children walked to school without adult supervision from a very young age. They were also given penknives when they were 7 years old and didn't go around stabbing each other.

DH's best friends were of the school of "leave the 4 year old at home whilst I pop to the shops for half an hour" so I'm willing to discount and thoughts they may have on the subject!

Weirdly, all of DD's school friends have a younger sibling except one who is an only, but as far as I know, her mum goes out when she's at her dad's. That is so strange. I've double checked the class list and she is definitely the only youngest sibling

They were also given penknives when they were 7 years old and didn't go around stabbing each other.

Yes, I was when I got the letter for a school trip saying knives only for kids in yr 3 (8-9yrs old) and above please!

@BereftOfInk

They were also given penknives when they were 7 years old and didn't go around stabbing each other.

Yes, I was when I got the letter for a school trip saying knives only for kids in yr 3 (8-9yrs old) and above please!

I also found this one weird. Then had to slap myself around a bit and remind myself that at that age I was helping to cook dinner using sharp knives!

[quote Nandocushion]@Coldspringharbour Whether you have actually worked in safeguarding, or not, means absolutely nothing here. OP lives in Germany, where this is legal, which means the German government doesn't agree with your opinion. OP will make her own decision whether she wants, or not, to do something which is totally legal in the country in which she lives. Your opinion of risk and responsibility doesn't matter at all actually. OP can do what she thinks is right for herself and her family.[/quote]
She’s asking for opinions. It’s my opinion. Where I live or the poster lives is irrelevant. It’s about doing the right thing. That’s my opinion. If she didn’t have doubts herself, because it’s legal in her country, then she wouldn’t have posted. She can take all our varying replies and make a decision herself. Clearly everyone’s opinion matters to the poster or she wouldn’t have bothered posting and asking the question in the first place.

Not ok. I’m struggling to understand why you’d even ask if it’s ok. I wouldn’t leave my almost 14 and ten year olds to go out for dinner.

YABU - get a takeaway

Anton Mosimann could tell you a thing or two about being left alone as a child. When he was 10 and alone at home one night, a burglar broke into his house; this burglar had already murdered two people locally. He hid under his bed and the burglar came into his room and stood within a foot of him before ransacking the room. He was still hiding hours later when his 'parents' finally returned. Mr Mosimann says he has never had a good night's sleep since and has frequent nightmares; 'the terror is as acute now as it was for that 10 year old boy'. I feel very sorry for your children that your own personal gratification overrides their safety and emotional welfare.

Nope. Nope. Nope.
Totally inappropriate to leave children of their ages home alone for any period of time, let alone several hours.
Have a date night at home once their in bed.

The naïveté of happily telling neighbours that your young DC are home alone and expecting none of them to take advantage of that in any way (e.g. burgling your house) is breathtaking.
Also, all this ‘if one DC choked the other would fetch a neighbour/call an ambulance’: there are grown adults in such situations who go into shock and freeze/don’t act rationally. Expecting a child as young as 8 to follow proper procedure in an emergency is very unfair.

YABU that is neglect.

Another one who is quite laid back but also saying no way !!!

I’d never relax anyway so it would be a shit night even if i did go

Just - no

@CHIRIBAYA

Anton Mosimann could tell you a thing or two about being left alone as a child. When he was 10 and alone at home one night, a burglar broke into his house; this burglar had already murdered two people locally. He hid under his bed and the burglar came into his room and stood within a foot of him before ransacking the room. He was still hiding hours later when his 'parents' finally returned. Mr Mosimann says he has never had a good night's sleep since and has frequent nightmares; 'the terror is as acute now as it was for that 10 year old boy'. I feel very sorry for your children that your own personal gratification overrides their safety and emotional welfare.

WTF does this have to do with anything? Would an adult have been any less scared? Is it even true? I can't find any reference to it online.

DP and I went out for dinner the other night. We were seated, ate an amazing meal and were home within an hour! So for anyone saying it’s ok for an hour or so while you go shopping, but not for a meal out, it could be a quick meal! However my DCs are a bit older at 13 & 15.

Eldest is 20 and a few years ago we started leaving them all alone in the evening to go to the cinema etc. so they would have been around 16/17, 12 and 10.

Guaranteed I would come out of the cinema to a barrage of messages saying
“when will you be back?”

“DS 1 is being mean to me.”

“It’s dark and I’m scared”

“What time will you be home. I miss you and I’m crying”
etc

Put a right dampener on the evening!! I think you need to get a babysitter - just a local teenager etc t be a voice of authority, as siblings make terrible babysitters for each other and 10 is definitely too young.

@whattimeisitrightnow

The naïveté of happily telling neighbours that your young DC are home alone and expecting none of them to take advantage of that in any way (e.g. burgling your house) is breathtaking. Also, all this ‘if one DC choked the other would fetch a neighbour/call an ambulance’: there are grown adults in such situations who go into shock and freeze/don’t act rationally. Expecting a child as young as 8 to follow proper procedure in an emergency is very unfair.

You must live somewhere utterly horrible. I would trust any of my long-term neighbours. We are a community - everyone catsits, waters plants etc for each other. I have never for a moment thought that my neighbours would burgle us, certainly not in the time it takes to go out for dinner!