AIBU to leave 8 & 10 year alone to go out to dinner?

[BereftOfInk]

DH has suggested we go out to dinner together and leave the DC home alone. His parents often did this once he turned 10. I don't know if I'm being over protective as I was never left alone as a child. We live in a block of flats and would let our direct neighbours know they were alone, DC know them and could go and knock if they needed help for any reason. They offered to do this a while ago, but we thought the DC were too young so didn't. Neighbour suggested it as it's what her parents did when she was young (she wouldn't want to sit in our flat with them).

Get them ready for bed, stick a film on and let them go to bed when tired/fall asleep on the sofa. Acceptable or not?

Tempest

Calm down. There's no need to abuse OP.

Not acceptable. They're too young. In my opinion a ten year old could be left for about an hour if they're sensible, but not with a younger sibling and not for much longer than that. There's something about parents going out enjoying themselves while leaving the kids alone and putting themselves to bed that doesn't sit right with me.

@TempestHayes

That's fucking horrendous, are you serious or just bored? What an excuse for a parent. I'd hope your horrified neighbours would call the police.

Although I (as I said above) wouldn't have done this, some of the posts are pretty hyperbolic (example in quote).

German neighbours would not be 'horrified' at this and I can only imagine how the German police would respond if called out in this scenario. There's a lot of very distorted thinking about child independence and safety in the UK. The PP who said she is only just starting leaving her 13yo for an hr is doing the 13yo a disservice (assuming no SN, obviously). A lot of it does seem to be about what the parent feels safe/comfortable with, with little regard to the need for the parent to step out of their (!) comfort zone in order to allow children experiences of self-efficacy at an appropriate stage.

It is not unusual in Germany for primary school children of 5 years old to walk to school alone. It's rude to suggest OP is lying about this as the culture there is very different to that of the UK. German children have more independence from a younger age.

OP I wouldn't leave children of this age alone for an evening but maybe the answers would be different on a German parenting forum?

In fact, seeing as we're on UK/German comparisons, a lot of Germans are similarly horrified at the UK practice of sending children to school aged 4/5 and teaching them phonics etc. They consider it too young, developmentally inappropriate and denying children a childhood. Flashcards, home 'workbooks' and too many classes for preschoolers are regarded with suspicion.

If it's the socially acceptable norm where you live and you want to do it, go ahead, fill your boots. But don't kid yourself that most responsible, caring parents would leave their children alone at home while they go for a meal, because they wouldn't.

Sorry for multiple posts - I think it's interesting that a lot of PPs have assumed the 10yo would be 'in charge of' or 'looking after' the 8yo. At that age (and with that age difference) I was clear that the 10yo wasn't in charge, it was more of a safety-in-numbers thing.

I'm going to be in the minority here, but I'm really surprised how many people wouldn't leave a 10 and 8 year old without an adult hovering, even though one is right across the hall if needed. Mine are 11 & 10, and have walked to and from school together since the eldest was 8. They ride their bikes out, arrange kickarounds in the nearby meadow or playing fields with their friends, walk to the local shops (half a mile, no busy roads) and are quite happy to be left at home for a couple of hours knowing that help is available on all sides if required. We live in a quiet 'no through road' village which helps a lot, and all the kids know each other's parents so there's always someone around to help if needed (usually me in fairness!). They have phones and can call if they need, but other than that it's fairly similar to how my husband and I grew up.

Having said that, it absolutely depends on the children, how much independence they've been used to so far (we worked up in small increments) and how much they (and you) trust the neighbour - would they feel comfortable being left, or knocking if they needed help? Would she knock and check every so often? If one parent is more cautious than the other, I think that caution needs to be respected.

I don’t even leave my 18 year old alone with her siblings in the evening to go out. She is very sensible and trustworthy but it still makes me uncomfortable. I have left her with her teenage siblings in the day for a couple of hours but not the younger kids.

@Nandocushion

I would do this OP, not saying it's fine with any children at all, but it would be with my own as I know them well and they would be fine. Caveat - I would only go for dinner somewhere close enough to walk to in a few minutes, not a drive across town, and I would probably text them every 10-15 minutes, which might not be too relaxing. My kids are a bit older than yours and we've been slowly getting all of us used to this over a period of years and the kids are more responsible and confident for it.

Something unheard of in our own culture/country may well be okay in another, as it seems to be the case here. It's really up to how you feel about it, with your children and what you know about them. Don't be pushed into it if you don't feel it's okay, but also don't be talked out of it because of how other people (who don't know your kids, your neighbours or your building) feel about it.

Those of you saying this is 'neglect' and you'd be reported/get into trouble for it etc - not long ago there was a harrowing thread on here where the OP's sister (in UK) had neglected/abused her own children for a number of years so that the children were now violent towards others and each other. The family had been reported for abuse/neglect for years and yet nothing had been done, but all the time on here I hear people suggesting that someone might be investigated or their kids might be removed because a 10yo was left alone for a bit/allowed to go to park alone/some other fairly normal activity.

You say go for dinner somewhere close, yes, just like the Mccanns did and look how that turned out. Yes it’s highly unlikely to go wrong, but the risk of something going wrong is too high. It’s irresponsible to leave a ten year old in charge of an eight year old and neglectful too.

Terrible idea.

They’re far too young to leave. Mine are 13 and 14 and I’m still wary of leaving them in the evening.

I think some of the more cautious posters are maybe being taken out of context though?

Like I myself said I wouldn't leave my children until youngest was 13 (which is 13 years away 😭) but I meant in the specific circumstances the OP is describing - I would likely leave them in other scenarios though.

I do agree we are probably an overly cautious country but frankly I don't think all areas of the UK have the best community culture. I grew up on a council estate and we all roamed around outside from young ages, probably from 5 or so. Although no one was directly supervising, adults were always pottering around outside and looking out for all the kids, not just theirs.

But now I live on a naice estate mostly populated by retired people and I doubt anyone would notice my kids if my kids were in trouble if they were alone.

I do lament in a way that my children will not have the freedom I enjoyed, but I've known too many horror stories to ever risk my children become the tiny minority who are harmed while out playing alone.

They will have to develop responsibility and independence by doing other things. Maybe doing chores and going to clubs and stuff.

WTF?! Absolutely not!

Young kids should never be responsible for other kids.
YABU

11 and 13 is the youngest I would leave, I think. Even the most sensible of children can have an overactive imagination when it starts getting dark.

@Coldspringharbour Oh FFS. Yeah, that's totally the same thing, besides the fact that neither of OP's children is four years old, asleep in an unlocked hotel villa, unsupervised, in a foreign country on an insecure property.

I suppose I should be grateful that it took this long for someone to bring up MM. Is this McCann's Law, the leaving-a-child-alone version of Godwin's Law?

@Bigkingdom

I don’t even leave my 18 year old alone with her siblings in the evening to go out. She is very sensible and trustworthy but it still makes me uncomfortable. I have left her with her teenage siblings in the day for a couple of hours but not the younger kids.

This is absolute MADNESS. At 18, she could get a job as a sole-charge nanny, or have children of her own! At what age will you decide she's competent to look after younger children? 25? 30? Never? Does she know you feel this way?

@CatteStreet

Sorry for multiple posts - I think it's interesting that a lot of PPs have assumed the 10yo would be 'in charge of' or 'looking after' the 8yo. At that age (and with that age difference) I was clear that the 10yo wasn't in charge, it was more of a safety-in-numbers thing.

Yes, I wouldn't assume the 10 year old was in charge as the age gap is small and I would consider the youngest to be old enough to be left alone. I was never left in charge of my sister who was three years younger than me. It would never have worked. I was left for short periods starting at 8 or 9 and so was she, often with me home too but I was not her babysitter. I babysat my youngest sister from when we were 14 and 3, that was a different situation.

I suppose I should be grateful that it took this long for someone to bring up MM.

Sadly, there have already been some pretty vile comments referencing MM / her family, which I reported; they were deleted promptly.

Can’t believe you’re seriously considering it, they’re far too young. This is neglect, anything could happen.

I was left alone at 10 whilst my Mum worked in the school holidays and was fine but that was in the daytime.

Times have moved on though and I wouldn't do that now of an evening.

BereftOfInk

Even less so in a block of flats..

Why? Surely it would be safer! I think I wouldn't even consider it if they were alone in a house. But there would be other adults in the same building.”

Like Grenfell Tower, you mean?
For god’s sake, just no.

This is a wind-up, obviously.

I don’t like the idea of them putting themselves to bed without an adult there. Maybe an early-evening quick meal (like 6pm for an hour or two).
with a trusted neighbour across the hall, sensible kids, who are able to make reasonable decisions and enjoy being a little independent, then personally I think that’s OK, though not something I’d do I wouldn’t think it was dreadful idea.

I believe that parents can do children real harm by not allowing them any sort of independence. They can leave home and have their own babies at 16, so it makes no sense not to allow them to catch a bus and mooch around a shopping centre/go to the cinema/etc at 14, for example. They need chance to learn skills in a step-by-step way, and to know that we trust them.

And at 18, absolutely should be trusted by their own parent to be able to take care of younger siblings/cousins/whatever! Unless there is ASN or significant health issues involved on the part of the 18-year-old, obviously.