We need a new healthcare system

[FindANewWay]

Our healthcare system in the UK is shit. You have to pay into it as soon as you're earning 2/3 of minimum wage and it's an appalling service. We were already ranked way below other European systems prior to covid, and now we've got a death and infection rate on a par with Brazil.

The only strength we theoretically hsd in our terrible provision was that it was theoretically open to everyone, but actually that has proved not to be the case. Care home residents shunted out of hospitals, covid patients dying in the community and being denied treatment and admission. It's all happened. Because our healthcare system is tied up with politics. And it has failed us.

We shouldn't be clapping. We should be angry. Angry that we have been let down.

yeah @ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN, theres quite extreme cruelty and abuse in these places, its quite shocking in a supposedly civilised country they should all be shut down, care in the community is the answer.

The NHS is so badly run and completely mismanaged. It wouldn't matter how much money was pumped into it, it's a bucket with a hole.

We are not the envy of the world - if we were, surely another country would want to mimick this, dog's dinner? The choices also are not: NHS or US insurance system. Why do people always use such woeful examples, when throughout Europe, there are much better examples?

why is it always the first dig at overweight people, what about Britains Booze Culture? the NHS was being drained by Alcoholics and smokers long before the obesity crisis, and i say that as an ex smoker!!!

@Phineyj
The biggest barrier to improvement is treating the NHS like a quasi religion. Whenever I point out the above, easy to verify facts, some people respond like I swore in church.

Absolutely this.

People didn't all get the treatment they needed because there was a huge spike in demand (albeit smaller than if we'd done nothing). Hospitals in the US are having to decide who they save from Covid. It's about a pandemic putting unprecedented pressure on the system, not the NHS. Which is not to say there aren't areas for improvement and we could start with staff pay and conditions. Even pre pandemic they weren't okay.

If NHS was the envy of the world, people wouldn't pay privately and for plane tickets on top to go back to their native countries for healthcare when needed...

It could be great, every system has issues, but it does need changes.

why is it always the first dig at overweight people, what about Britains Booze Culture?
Because it is biggest health issue affecting the UK today. It is not the only issue, but in terms numbers of affected people, it is by some distance the most critical public health issue today.

I've lived and worked in many countries and our NHS is fantastic, people like you who take it for granted and don't see it for how great it is are the problem.

I have friends and family currently working in the NHS, as I have in the past. For starters they look after their staff excellently with pensions and decent sick pay (6months full pay then 6months half pay). There are NHS employees shielding who are still on full pay as they have been since the start of the pandemic, not given work to do from home but rightly allowed to stay at home for the foreseeable without any wfh requests.

We all have 24/7 access to health services. Look at how critical care services coped with the surge, nobody was refused an ICU bed. The government are now investing 3b to cope with winter pressures. You need to travel a bit op and see how shit some health services really are.

I think it’s amazing we have a free to use healthcare system. I do think it needs more funding though and not through taxes as not everyone pays those so it’s unfair to make some pay and not others.

Maybe a charge to see a GP, raises both funds and stops time wasters who not show or or for something that can be bought over the counter etc. Higher prescription costs and everyone pays, keeping the annual pre pay very for those who need frequent prescriptions. Am sure there are other areas where small charges would make a big difference.

Daniel Hannan or Cummings?

@DillonPanthersTexas

You tend to get fat when you're involuntarily sedentary whilst waiting 10 months for an operation.

63% of adults in the UK are overweight. Were they all waiting for an operation?

No

But luckily thats not what that poster was saying

Those who are living abroad how much does it cost you or your employer a month ? I think in some European countries employers subsidise the private element ?

DH has private health care via his job, he has used it once ( in 25 years )for a simple surgery procedure in a local NHS hospital. They refused to do it in the private one as he was high risk and they don't have the facilities to deal with emergencies. All his other admissions have been emergency life and death ones, which were dealt with by the NHS brilliantly.

Could the NHS be better ? absolutely it could, I work in the NHS and don't know anybody who doesn't think there isn't some room for improvement, most would say better staffing levels as an example. We see a lot of change for change's sake, which cost's an awful lot of money and rarely produces the desired outcomes.

And then there is social care funding being decimated, which has a huge knock on effect on the NHS. A lot of people refuse to pay for the care they need, so the NHS picks up the pieces when they reach crisis point. If someone has been deemed as having capacity, it is incredibly difficult to walk out of their door leaving them in squalor/at high risk of falling and injury, knowing no-one else will see them until you next visit, which might be up to a week's time. In the meantime they will ring the police and firebrigade almost every night.
I do think there are a lot of people out there who still believe that social services/ the NHS provide domicillary care, they don't, it was privatised many moons ago and if you have money, you will have to pay for it. If you have capacity and choose not to pay for it, then you will not recieve any care until the point where you are hospitalised and then you might get a few weeks on discharge. I see this happen a lot, people need care, refuse to pay for care, go to hospital, get free care for a short period of time to facciltate discharge and then as soon as it is mentioned that they will need to pay for care, they refuse and so care stops and the cycle begins again.

I agree the NHS needs reform

No idea how, but the reaction to COVID (which I appreciate is not completely down to the NHS) was lacking regarding the care homes and when you could go to hospital (when your lips turn blue)

Even before this there were failures in care, a complaints system that wasnt fit for purpose and in my area at least a lack of provision with appointments taking 6 weeks plus at times

It would be interesting to hear from those abroad or who have lived abroad, how social/domicillary care works in those countries ?

people like you who take it for granted and don't see it for how great it is are the problem.

Actually I think it's the feeling of how grateful everyone should be no matter if there are issues or there is sub-standard care that is the bigger issue.

'Actually I think it's the feeling of how grateful everyone should be no matter if there are issues or there is sub-standard care that is the bigger issue.'

Oh yes I totally agree. The clapping for 10weeks and hero worship is unnecessary, but the op said the NHS is 'shit' and it isn't.

In my experience, the NHS is brilliant. Our family have had no end of care and couldnt complain at all. The service has been fab. Try living in another country where you have to pay health insurance, and if you dont have it, you get taken to the worst hospitals imaginable. Or when they say the insurance doesnt cover this or that and you end up with a bill for 50 grand or more.

And I have no idea what you mean op about high earners not paying in? They pay tax like the rest of us and probably most of those high earners also get private health care through their employer or go private so are actually paying twice.

And where you say about expats in Spain getting a better health service, it's not always so marvellous. I know a family that had a terrible time because the reciprocal arrangement for healthcare only goes so far and they wouldnt agree certain treatments or pay for an air ambulance home.

You think the infection rate and death rate from Covid is the NHS's fault?!! Wow.

In my experience, the NHS is brilliant. Our family have had no end of care and couldnt complain at all. The service has been fab. Try living in another country where you have to pay health insurance, and if you dont have it, you get taken to the worst hospitals imaginable. Or when they say the insurance doesnt cover this or that and you end up with a bill for 50 grand or more.

I've experienced the complete opposite.

It's not the choice of - 'free', shit service or callous health insurance. there are more than two options. The NHS are luddites who don't want to change.

We dont need another option, why change something, when it works. If you've had a "shit service" perhaps that was down to the particular service or hospital, or incident?
Over the last couple of years I've had a lot to do with the NHS, with different family members and different areas, and the service has been brilliant. It might be down to your expectations. If you are expecting to see a consultant within days of you mentioning a problem, you might be disappointed, but on the whole, I think if you expect some delay for non urgent issues, you are fine.

'I've experienced the complete opposite.'

How though? If you say you've experienced the complete opposite at least give one example.

We have 24/7 access to healthcare. 2 week urgent referrals for those presenting with symptoms of cancer. A load of specialities available if not on your doorstep then in the nearest city.

Like anywhere you get staff who really shouldn't be in the role and there are those whose time management is utterly shite, but generally I've always found the NHS is excellent

I'm glad that care homes are getting a review because millionaire care home owners charging a fortune, driving mercs whilst paying their staff peanuts and not having PPE or assuring the staff adhere to basic barrier nursing requirements is completely unacceptable.

The NHS are luddites who don't want to change.

That simply isn't true. Our service has undegone many changes over the last few years, one of which resulted in a massively reduced provision of a particular service, which in turn has resulted in uneccessary hospital admissions. Change doesn't automatically = improvement or cost savings.

How though? If you say you've experienced the complete opposite at least give one example.

GP not taking DP's health concerns seriously and fobbing him off with anti depressants
GP refusing to do a home visit for DP (who has agrophibia), eventually come out to discover he has pneumonia and send him to hospital - later diagnosed with a brain tumour! GP had not taken any of our joint attempts to get his mobility and other problems checked out.
In hospital - attempting to give DP wrong medication. Luckily he was with it enough to speak up - someone else wouldn't have been and could have been killed. No apology and a hostile response when trying to discuss why and how that happened with ward sister
Hospital - filthy conditions - MRSA contracted twice.
Particular nurses who don't want to have to actaully do any work. One refused to help DP to the toilet and accused him of beibg lazy because he was able to watch a TV show on his laptop
MRI that supposedly booked while DP was an inpatient but due to be coming home not actaukky having been booked - discovered only after numerous phone calls

These are just the ones I can rattle off, there have been many more.

Is that enough for you @GetOffYourHighHorse? Funny how you don't expand upon your 'excellent' treatment yet expect justification of other people's assertion, perhaps, you'd like to take your own advice?