We need a new healthcare system

[FindANewWay]

Our healthcare system in the UK is shit. You have to pay into it as soon as you're earning 2/3 of minimum wage and it's an appalling service. We were already ranked way below other European systems prior to covid, and now we've got a death and infection rate on a par with Brazil.

The only strength we theoretically hsd in our terrible provision was that it was theoretically open to everyone, but actually that has proved not to be the case. Care home residents shunted out of hospitals, covid patients dying in the community and being denied treatment and admission. It's all happened. Because our healthcare system is tied up with politics. And it has failed us.

We shouldn't be clapping. We should be angry. Angry that we have been let down.

We should adopt a system like Germany's.
The Australian model is pretty good too.

See, this is what happens....You CANNOT criticise the blessed NHS. You simply can't. For some reason people will defend it to the death. Even though it's costly, badly run and ineffective.

We need a new system. The NHS was conceived long ago and it's simply not the best system to meet the need.

I know someone who went for an appointment at the local NHS for a planned operation. They were offered pay private to have the operation asap or wait several months for free NHS
They waited for NHS & treatment was successful
During the process, they had to confirm residency in UK with proof

No complaints with NHS so far

There is already a two tier system

NHS or private

Nhs is not underfunded it’s over consumed and horrendously inefficient at best
Throwing more money at it without a fundamental rethink won’t solve the problem

Hello pritti is that you ? Nice try

We need more hospital's building and more staff with higher wages and better benefit's for them but i think on a whole the NHS is brilliant yes we have long wait times but that's just how it is till we have a government that properly invests in it instead of trying to sell parts off in trade deals thinking we wont notice

Loads of our healthcare system is privatised though. But it's all been done arse about tit. They've just privatised the profitable outpatient arms eg MRI scans and the like, and funnelled public funds at them. That is not a mixed model. Any doesn't do anything to address the real issue which is that we urgently need to change our funding model. Right now it's tied up with central government which is why 45 thousand people have died while politicians told us the NHS was working and we should all clap about it. I mean, it clearly wasn't. But no one is accountable for that.

The systems not perfect, but better that than private health care such as America where many people can’t afford to go to the drs. We also need to stop abusing the system.

@LucaFritz long wait times means higher mortality rates, especially in terms of cancer. Our cancer survival rates are already abysmal, and they're about to go through the floor in the aftermath of four and a half months during which the vast majority of NHS employees haven't been anywhere near a patient.

@Pixxie7 the USA is also atypical in terms of healthcare funding and I agree with you problematic in different ways. But all other western healthcare systems strike a balance between the extreme of either the UK or the USA and have much better outcomes.

I live in Ireland and the heath system here is shocking.
At least with the NHS, everyone no matter what their circumstance is entitled to equal healthcare.
Here in Ireland, I pay €65 every time I want to see a GP. If I need to attend an emergency department, I have to pay €100 to be seen. Plus I pay separately the cost price for medication, not the set rate of £8 per item in the UK. To give some context, I paid €34 for one packet of antibiotics recently.
I am entitled to a medical card which gets me 'free' healthcare but I need to be earning less than the 'normal' wage - so I am not entitled to receive anything free.
If I want to go privately, I have to pay. Currently I pay €240 per month for myself and my husband's medical insurance.
This insurance ensures that we can get elective surgeries/scans/treatment fast, rather than waiting on the years waiting list if we go public.
If we attend a private hospital, we pay and claim back a small percentage from the insurance - a trip to a private A&E is capped at €600... so you are basically haemorrhaging money.

Oh and I forgot to mention I am a nurse so know the system inside out. Have worked for the NHS and nothing compares - equal healthcare for everyone. Obviously I know you pay towards it in taxes but I would rather that than pay the cost I am paying here just to be seen in a timely fashion should I become unwell.

the grass isn't always greener

You know what would really help? Opening up the NHS to US healthcare providers in the upcoming trade talks. Oh, wait, that would just fuck everything up. So probably better to stick with increasing funding and staffing levels.

And fuck off Dominic Cummings.

So, Dave, is Richard Branson so much better?

Tbh I don't think that the providers are the problem, if it is done openly, which it's not. The fundamental problem is the tie to government, the lethal results of which can be seen by our 45 fucking thousand dead to covid, and also I guess with the way that politicians are bent, hence Branson and other contractors. At least if it were removed from political control it has the potential to be less corrupt, in terms of contracts.

I lived in Sweden for a while, I became rather unwell, requiring hospitalisation. It was an absolute amazing experience, I couldn't believe it!

I also lived in France, and had medical care there GP level not hospital, again amazing. Also the pharmacist's in France are exceptional.

I returned to the UK and had the unfortunate experience of needing the NHS. It's a shit show, absolute shit show. But you can't say that, oh no the NHS is enviable, it's the best thing since sliced bread...blah blah blah. It's horrific honestly! It needs to be scrapped and something better put in, anything better put in.

Or the UK public should be able to pay for medical insurance if they chose to, and have full blown access to private hospitals with A and E and maternity services and all services, basically opting out of the NHS.

I'll happily continue to pay my NI alongside my own private medical insurance to help those less fortunate still have the help they need. But at least I wouldn't have to actively use the NHS myself and receive good care elsewhere.

’I don't think that the providers are the problem’

Agreed, it’s the concept of healthcare being operated on a for-profit basis.

now we've got a death and infection rate on a par with Brazil.

^Not quite.

"Brazil's health ministry reported 24,578 newly confirmed Covid-19 cases Sunday, bringing the country's total to 2,419,091...Brazil's death toll to 87,004."

edition.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-07-26-20-intl/h_72e1b1cc229824be6ff2d133493af0ba

R rate UK: 0.7-.0.9

Brazil R rate ranges from 0.73 - 1.95 (different per state)

www.gov.uk/guidance/the-r-number-in-the-uk

perone.github.io/covid19analysis/brazil_r0.html

Look at the expenditure on healthcare. (From wiki) France has a good system. It’s well funded. We underfund the NHS and pay the price. The US system is one of the most expensive and delivers poor value for money.

This is a nice illustration from the office of national statistics - ons.gov.uk

the USA is also atypical in terms of healthcare funding and I agree with you problematic in different ways. But all other western healthcare systems strike a balance between the extreme of either the UK or the USA and have much better outcomes

Which is we should be shitting ourselves about Boris has in store:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/22/the-tories-new-trade-bill-means-the-nhs-is-now-unquestionably-up-for-sale

The 45,000 dead - or around 55,000 looking at the ONS - are due to the government locking down far too late
The countries that did well locked down when they had fewer cases

• exponential growth is very unforgiving of dithering and delay.

I live in Germany, which has an excellent health care system, a mix of private & public
We have massive spare capacity
None of that would have been enough if Merkel had locked down a couple of weeks later

In Germany, healthcare is about 12% of GDP, compared to 8-9% for the NHS
We have about 3 x as many doctors, hospital beds and multiple x ICU beds per 100,000 population as the UK
The huge spare capacity meant it didn't turn into the National COVID Service, with little treatment for other ailments.

However you divide up the private / public spend, the UK does not spend enough on healthcare for the level of service that most people demand.

The USA spends about 17% of GDP, so spending a huge amount isn't enough in itself to give good healthcare for all
So a country needs both a sensible system and enough money

Problem is, trying to change from the NHS to a "better" system would probably be chaos, because millions would still need healthcare during the transition
It's much easier to change systems if they can be switched off during the process !

And of course, there might be dubious contracts to political donors and government supporters - whoever is in power - as in the COVID crisis

The frequent reorganisations of the NHS have tended to add on layers of bureaucracy, without noticeable improvement in service,
so I'd need convincing before supporting another one

That picture is tiny

www.ons.gov.uk/chartimage?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29/ae93ec43 link

It is, definitely poorly funded when compared with other countries. NHS needs a major revamp-a hospital in Leeds should be using the same software and forms as a hospital in London, for instance, and community trusts.
To be honest, I don't feel there should be all these different trusts. Drives me nuts as they all use different paperwork, software and have different policies and procedures. The communication between them is appalling. Why can't there be one NHS hospital network and one NHS community network?!
All referrals from external/internal should be the same template, form, whatever, for ease of communication and so all HCPs around the country can follow it!
Get rid of GP practices as businesses-what a shit idea! They (GP v Hospitals) fight with each other over who's funding what for patient X and hospitals bill GP practices for the services they (GPs) refer patients for. It's a minefield!

I live in Australia that has a similar system in terms of set up and state funding but it’s completely different here because most people have some level of private healthcare and the way things are set up encourages this so you have a lot of private patients and a better funded provision for those who don’t want to go private. It’s makes the NHS looks like something out of a developing country. I’d never rely on the NHS if I moved back to Britain. Doing small things to encourage people to take responsibility for their healthcare can make a huge difference.