to suggest NOT wearing masks, but instead wearing . . .

[Durgasarrow]

the charmingly named Neck Gaitors? They have been my all-purpose solution to the Great Mask Dilemma of 2020. They're washable, lightweight, stylish, useful, versatile, you can wear them as a scarf and pull them up as needed, or as a hairband or even a bracelet if it's too constricting to keep it around your neck. They're cheap to order from Amazon by the half dozen--they have seriously helped me keep my sanity.

Being asked to wear a mask is nothing alike being forced to wear a symbol of a different religion. I'm sorry, I noticed you said up thread that you're not religious so is clear you don't know what you're talking about.

In that case, equally no one who hasn't felt the way I do can say it isn't like being forced to wear the symbol of a different religion, since they don't know what they're talking about.

It doesn't make sense to me to be honest. We're in an open plan office and the only time we can take our masks off is while we are sitting at our desks, any other time we have to wear them. Apparently that's a concession as well as the company's original plan was for us to wear them all the time. I don't think that would have gone down too well although even if we are on our own in the conference room we have to wear one.

I suspect this is to do with contact tracing. If you all sit at the same desks every day then if someone comes down with the virus, their contacts will be those sitting near them. Wearing a mask when you are away from your desk means there is less need to also consider as contacts those people you were close to in the kitchen, toilets, while visiting other departments etc. I don't know how effective this policy would be but I can kind of see the logic.

You are making things worse for those people. They are nothing to do with you or your 'principles'. You should leave them alone and stop co-opting their trauma.

I am leaving them alone. My message is not to them. It's to those who are upset by the mask mandate and can see the harm it's doing. I want them to consider not wearing the mask.

If the extent of your 'campaign' is claiming an exemption then you won't actually get to make your very important points of principle anyway because nobody should be challenging you. All you are achieving is making things harder for a lot of vulnerable people who can do without your grubby little forced teaming initiative.

If more people stop wearing masks, every individual not wearing masks stands out way less. If a mask zealot who doesn't believe that there should be any exemptions is in a supermarket where everyone else unmasked, they're out numbered.

LangClegInSpace

I've been making myself some extra masks today. DH is puzzled because "Pothole, you're exempt". Off the back of this thread, I have been trying to explain to him that I'm not because wearing masks doesn't cause me distress. He stared at me blankly and I told him to go and have a nap.

[quote YankeeinKingArthursCourt]@Stickystick

Thanks for the Norway insight. I've read the govt paper and in it they decided that given the very low incidence of cases (9,000) and deaths ( 255) in a country of 5 million, the public health situation did not merit the use of masks at this time. They noted they would look at this again in the case of increased infections / second wave etc.

Obviously the UK rate of infections / deaths is extraordinarily higher, so the UK public health decision towards masks is not simply capitulation to public fear.[/quote]
The UK rate of infections right now is pretty low. Round here it’s about 40 per million per week. Deaths in Scotland and NI are pretty much at zero. You’d have to run round looking really hard to find anyone who is infected, let alone get close enough for long enough to catch it.
If you were going to do masks, there was a time (like the US now, or Italy in March) when it might have made sense. But we are in Norway-land now - or we would be, except that the UK public is (probably disproportionately) fearful of the real risk. The want masks to feel safer, so the Government is happy to oblige.

@Plimpy

I only care about doing what we can to reduce the spread of the virus while not shitting on vulnerable people

Clear now?

Nope. Because the mask mandate harms those with exemptions more than it helps stop the spread of coronavirus.
Your very position is contradictory. You have of course every right to disagree.
I'm never nit going to think you're anything but a massive hypocrite.

I don't care about 'principles' or loopholes or what people think they can get away with while technically being within the letter of the law

You're judging extreme distress from being forced to wear something which goes against people's principles as a 'loophole', 'getting away with it' or 'a technicality'.
Just like those who belive that about autism or PTSD It's absolutely your right to think this.
I'm never not going to think you're anything but a massive hypocrite.

Your 'principles' are not a disability or a health condition though Plimpy, unlike autism or PTSD.

If you believe in your principles then you should stand up for them honestly, not claim 'severe distress' at the first hurdle. It makes you look like a snivelling coward who has to hide behind disabled people and people with severe mental distress because you are unable to put forward a proper argument and defend it.

You are not standing up for people who can't wear masks you are just using them for your own political aims. I will always think that is shitty behaviour.

You are free to think whatever you like about me. I don't care because I don't value your opinion.

I have said all I have to say to you so I won't be engaging with you again.

I would like these but I can't find any that are mostly cotton.

Your 'principles' are not a disability or a health condition though Plimpy, unlike autism or PTSD

Severe distress is listed as one of the exemptions:

'You have a health condition or you are disabled and a face covering would be inappropriate because it would cause difficulty, pain or severe distress or anxiety or because you cannot apply a covering and wear it in the proper manner safely and consistently.'

If you're trying to argue that severe distress and anxiety are not a legit medical condition, you're even more of a hypocrite than I thought.

It won't take a genius to work out that I'm completely opposed to masks.

Leaving that aside, it's all very well saying that they need to be taken off in such-and-such a way, with clean hands, then disposed of in such-and-such a way, with further hand-washing, blah, blah blah.

In real life, people are putting them on their heads, on their beards, on their chins, then slipping them back onto their mouths and noses when they go in shops. I have seen people drop them on the floor, then put them back on. The people I have seen in real life are not adhering to anything other than the requirement to cover their faces in shops.

I detest the whole business, but I'd say social distancing was a better bet than a mask.

And why do you need a mask in a shop, where you don't really encounter strangers at close quarters, but you don't need one in a pub, where people are unlikely to be so scrupulous about keeping their distance?

The whole thing is bonkers at best.

Oh, and look at the poster on the other thread. Braved the supermarket although afraid. 'I was the only person maskless too'.

I'm not going over to that thread to garner opinion as to whether exempt people would feel better if they weren't the only ones maskless like you suggested I do. I'm all over that thread already under a different name. If I were trying to make myself a saviour figure I'd have said it there, rather than asked others who in on this thread have said that they believe this is all unscientific and pointless to stand up for the others on the other thread.

'I was the only person maskless too'.

You tell me that poster would feel better if they weren't alone.

Severe distress is listed as one of the exemptions:

No that's saying severe distress on account of your disability, it's not listing it as an exemption. That is exactly what your quote does not say.

It's only now you've raised the issue of your anxiety, previously you were saying it was a matter of principle and a choice on your part

You tell me that poster would feel better if they weren't alone.

*Wouldn't - sorry.

It's all about the masks, people (and, of course, the neck gaitors, since we have established, that I, the OP, am living the champagne lifestyle, as I am in the Pocket of Big Neck Gaitor.)

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/scourge-hygiene-theater/614599/

Thomasina 79, you nailed it! Not everyone is the same, and to add to your well pointed remarks, I personally can't wear the mask, after trying, of course, the moment I breathe into my hot exhaling I feel sick, and it causes me a distress to the extent of vomiting. So I won't wear it, full stop! I rather prefer to avoid going to places where it is required to wear one. But if I really have to take the bus, for instance, I will need to put up with the rudeness and verbal violence I could get from other people, from not wearing one. Let alone giving explanation ti every individual on why I cannot tolerate anything on my face and nose.
In the weirdest of times is where the weirdest of people start to rise up.
I pray for peace...

I use one of these www.virustaticshield.com/
Really comfy and impregnated with antiviral coating.

Oh come on.

Either you are distressed or physically unable to wear masks or you are not. If you can't wear something on your face, whether it's a dust shield, a beekeeper's hat, an fp3 mask or a scarf, then don't.

This thread all reads like entirely synthetic outrage about fabricated principle. If your thing is that you want to conscientiously object to the guideline then say that and do that and you'll get some actual respect and maybe a night out with James Delingpole.

What you're bringing to the table now is a mash-up and I'm not sure even James Delingpole is willing to cheer on anything that his listeners will class as 'I'm not wearing a mask because it causes me severe distress to be told what to do'. It'll be totally hypocritical on the part of at least a few listeners, but that won't save you.

www.virustaticshield.com/
Really comfy and impregnated with antiviral coating.

Hmmm. Their claims don't quite add up. The fabric is supposedly coated with something that is claimed to protect cells inside our throats by coating them.
How is the coating in the fabric supposed to outlast washing and reach the throat?

I use buffs too but with extra long hair bands.

1. put hair band round neck like a necklace
2. hold buff in one hand and thread hairband through opening and then up and over back of head to sit above ears
3. adjust fabric of buff into even layers to cover mouth and nose.

In my line of work I deal regularly with Asians. They are baffled by the debate surrounding masks/ face coverings here in the U.K. they’ve had epidemics like SARS and their countries are much more densely populated than the U.K. and everybody wears a mask, no fuss about it, it is regarded as being part of society that you will have to put up with some discomfort for the sake of the common good.
I understand that people with hidden disabilities may feel anxious about (not) wearing one but they can simply use the Daisy Lanyards and Daisy badges so others know they can’t use a face covering and not reproach them.
What I don’t get is this militant anti-face covering movement. Isn’t it bad manners to sneeze and cough without covering your mouth and nose?? If the virus is transmitted by particles by the mere fact that someone breathes then it’s logical that mouth and nose should be covered at all times in confined spaces or in close proximity to someone else like public transport, supermarkets etc
If people don’t wear masks as per experts’ recommendations then we will likely have more spikes and local lockdown later and people’s lives will be affected..... Jobs lost, kids with no teaching etc...

@Plimpy

Severe distress is listed as one of the exemptions:

'You have a health condition or you are disabled and a face covering would be inappropriate because it would cause difficulty, pain or severe distress or anxiety or because you cannot apply a covering and wear it in the proper manner safely and consistently.'

Sorry to bust your bubble, but severe distress or anxiety are NOT listed as exemptions.

Severe distress or anxiety on their own are not grounds for exemption. The distress or anxiety must arise from or be associated with a health condition or disability in order to qualify, just as inability due to a health condition or disability to put on or wear a mask properly will exempt you.

'Stand alone' distress and anxiety are not conditions that qualify someone for an exemption.

You have completely misread that paragraph.

I think alot of people are missing this

or because you cannot apply a covering and wear it in the proper manner safely and consistently.'

I've seen lots of people say - I can keep it on for a few minutes then I have to rip it off. But I'll keep trying.

But if you can't keep the mask on properly and remove properly you shouldn't be wearing it as per the guidelines.

I'm not wearing one, I do have minor conditions that combined mean I can't cope with one on. I'm dizzy and light headed after 2 mins. I have actually tried to put one on because its embarrassing being out on your own and the only person with no mask, and everyone staring at you and giving you daggers.

But now I see if having to constantly rip the thing off your face before you collapse or go into a panic attack also makes you excempt, I now feel better that I've totally given up trying. I just keep my head down now. Although I have ordered a similar thing to what op suggested but its chiffon to see if that is OK for me.

I do sorta agree with Pimpley though. If there were more people without masks then people that can't wear them wouldn't feel like everyone was staring at them and judging them. It does put me off going out. But then I'm also in the masks probably don't actually offer protection its a political move to make people feel better camp.

@Stickystick

Looking at the King's Covid research, there are about 28,000 active Covid cases now and over 1,000 new daily cases in the UK. Daily infections are no longer decreasing ( & haven't for several weeks).

We are not similar to Norway now ( & probably never have been), therefore merit a different public health response.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but severe distress or anxiety are NOT listed as exemptions.

Actually it is:

(a) P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—

(i) because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010(1)), or

(ii) without severe distress;

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regulation/4/made

I think what they had in mind was things like flashbacks or panic attacks - there are a lot of people living with past trauma who don't have a diagnosed condition and thought they were doing OK until they were required to wear a face covering.

I'm pretty sure what they did not have in mind was 'I'm distressed because it's against my principles'.

Who knows though - perhaps some people will have the chance to test this in the criminal courts.

I make my face masks out of a J cloth and a couple of hair tie-ers

Despite testing a lot, apparently, the number of deaths by COVID in the UK has been around 10x that of Portugal, in the last few weeks, but with a population of less than 7x more.
The number of infected in Portugal is higher per million, though.
Either it's hitting a younger demographic in Portugal (or we treat people better or earlier), or the number of infected in the UK is still very much underestimated.