to suggest NOT wearing masks, but instead wearing . . .

[Durgasarrow]

the charmingly named Neck Gaitors? They have been my all-purpose solution to the Great Mask Dilemma of 2020. They're washable, lightweight, stylish, useful, versatile, you can wear them as a scarf and pull them up as needed, or as a hairband or even a bracelet if it's too constricting to keep it around your neck. They're cheap to order from Amazon by the half dozen--they have seriously helped me keep my sanity.

Its really not

It is, TO ME.

I totally understand that others feel differently though.

I don't have any religious affiliations myself, but I do understand that for those who do, being forced to wear symbols they don't agree with or to do something that violates their principles, is a serious matter.
I'm using that comparison to try and help people understand where I'm coming from.
You don't have to agree with me.

The Norwegian public health authority has written a very clear, well balanced paper that looks at the dubious efficacy of non medical masks in the community, weighs it up against possible downsides (eg giving people a false sense of security, diverting attention from more important measures) and has concluded not to mandate them.

We could have easily taken the same route but for one factor - that polling and focus groups in the UK indicated that many people were scared about going to the shops if everyone was not in a mask (whereas this was not the case in Norway).

All my family use these, they are an extremely versatile garment. We had several each before the face coverings requirement, we’ve got dozens more now so that they can be washed after each wear. 👍🏻

We could have easily taken the same route but for one factor - that polling and focus groups in the UK indicated that many people were scared about going to the shops if everyone was not in a mask (whereas this was not the case in Norway).

The British fear was exacerbated by the media and then deliberately stoked further by the government, in order to get compliance for lockdown.
The masks are an attempt to undo that fear now that we need to save the economy. Some people know that the masks are bollocks but are willing to wear them to make others feel less afraid.
I don't think that it's my job to undo the fear that the government has created, and just like the lockdown, I think that the mask mandate will do far more harm than good.
It's time for it to stop.

Tried these. They squashed my nose making breathing harder and were hotter. Ill stick with my mask 😷

I use my hygge bands...

I've been using my running Hygge bands since the start of this whole thing. Much easier.

Totally irresponsible to recommend these. You need 3 ply with a layer of waterproof fabric to ensure protection for others. This type of face covering should be seen as a last resort when nothing else is available.

We are being asked to wear face coverings in an attempt to reduce the chances of cross infection, the idea isn't a fashion accessory.

Totally irresponsible to think you are in a position to advise the UK on what to do.

But the government are telling us that a scarf or face covering such as this is ok.. so who's the irresponsible one?!

@midnightstar66

But the government are telling us that a scarf or face covering such as this is ok.. so who's the irresponsible one?!

You know the answer.

I'm surprised British people still give their government any credit.

I'm in Scotland. Personally I think our first minister has handled this all quite well. If she's said only use a medical grade mask I'd have done so but she has stated that a scarf or face covering such as in this post is fine for popping to a shop so I took that at face value. I'm picking up a pint of milk in the Sainsbury's local not nursing patients on a covid ward after all.

I'm as perplexed as you, *GinDaddy".

All the ishoos and oh so clever hair splitting - anyone would think half the population lived in Alabama and believed the Gummint was out to get them.

@Plimpy You've given me an idea for more tiny print for my visor: It's not our job to undo Project Fear.

@Plimpy

Won't or can't?

You do realise you are only exempt if you CANNOT wear a mask because of disability, health condition or severe distress

So you think if people can wear masks despite experiencing enormous distress, they should suck up that distress and wear the mask?

You. Are. A. Massive. Hypocrite.

You were the one in the other thread saying that rape victims shouldn't have to do this exact thing.
Why do you get to decide that violation of principles is a lesser exemption?

Wow.

Absolutely, rape survivors who cannot wear a face covering because it triggers their PTSD should not have to put themselves through a traumatic programme of unsupported desensitisation therapy, which may worsen their mental health, before they are allowed to say 'I cannot wear a face covering' and use the exemption that was intended for people like them.

Yes, I stand by that and I still think you are talking shit. You are making things worse for those people. They are nothing to do with you or your 'principles'. You should leave them alone and stop co-opting their trauma.

You think I am a massive hypocrite because you have completely misunderstood my position.

I think you are a massive something but if I said what I would be deleted.

For the avoidance of doubt:

• I think cloth face coverings in enclosed spaces where it is difficult to socially distance are generally a good thing and can help reduce transmission if enough people wear one

• I think everyone who can wear one should do so

• I think everyone who cannot wear one should be left alone even if this means a few piss takers also go unchallenged

• I don't care about 'principles' or loopholes or what people think they can get away with while technically being within the letter of the law

• I only care about doing what we can to reduce the spread of the virus while not shitting on vulnerable people

Clear now?

This is obviously about politics and principles for you, so stand up for your principles honestly and campaign politically. Write to your MP, start a petition, stand outside tesco with your sad mates and a banner. Whatever.

If the extent of your 'campaign' is claiming an exemption then you won't actually get to make your very important points of principle anyway because nobody should be challenging you. All you are achieving is making things harder for a lot of vulnerable people who can do without your grubby little forced teaming initiative.

Yes, keep thinking it's project fear and wear face shields only.

www.insider.com/face-shields-did-not-protect-people-from-coronavirus-swiss-outbreak-2020-7

An outbreak in which those with masks didn't get infected but those with face shields did.

Your choice.

Does this help? 😂😂

Plimpy

Being asked to wear a mask is nothing alike being forced to wear a symbol of a different religion. I'm sorry, I noticed you said up thread that you're not religious so is clear you don't know what you're talking about.

Not wanting to be mildly inconvenienced isn't really a principle either, it's just being an idiot

@Kelp23

Does this help? 😂😂

Whenever I see that meme I always think it would be more sensible if people pissed in the toilet.

@Stickystick

Thanks for the Norway insight. I've read the govt paper and in it they decided that given the very low incidence of cases (9,000) and deaths ( 255) in a country of 5 million, the public health situation did not merit the use of masks at this time. They noted they would look at this again in the case of increased infections / second wave etc.

Obviously the UK rate of infections / deaths is extraordinarily higher, so the UK public health decision towards masks is not simply capitulation to public fear.

Sorry for the massive derail OP, those things are very pretty and if they are easier for some people to wear then they should go for it.

Stretchy fabrics are not ideal but if there's a way of wearing these so they are close fitting around the edges but the fabric is not stretched across the mouth and nose then that's a lot better.

Ideally face coverings should be made of three layers with the middle layer made of a non-woven material. WHO evidence review found the best thing to use was polypropylene non-woven fabric - also known as interfacing.

So if I wanted to make one of these as effective as possible I would suggest doubling it over, placing a piece of interfacing between the two layers and wearing it so it fits well around the edges but is baggy across the face. I don't know how possible that is.

If you just want to tick the box marked 'face covering', which is all that is legally required, then just bung it on and you're good to go.

[quote PurpleGoose]@redcatbluecat that's great that you can (and have actually tried), if you're comfortable using one and can remove safely, then each to their own. One of the reasons they're not recommended though is because of safe use/removal issues and as evidenced by some of the comments on this thread, some people either don't know about the issues or can't remove them safely.

@pinksparklypussycat Your situation is where reusable (and homemade if you can sew) masks are more practical and would allow you to have a large enough 'stash' to do a couple of days of frequent changes. My husband needs about 10-15 due to his work environment, so we've used pillowcases as a cheap source of fabric - also means u can get a better fit, as custom made. I am wondering why you need to put one on to go to the loo/make a drink, as not sure how that's different to sitting in your (presumably) well ventilated office - I can understand the printer if it's close to other people's desks. You don't need to answer me by the way, I'm just musing. [/quote]
It doesn't make sense to me to be honest. We're in an open plan office and the only time we can take our masks off is while we are sitting at our desks, any other time we have to wear them. Apparently that's a concession as well as the company's original plan was for us to wear them all the time. I don't think that would have gone down too well although even if we are on our own in the conference room we have to wear one.

I can't even sew a button on let alone make a mask! I've got fabric reusable masks but I'm probably wearing them for less than half an hour in total a day so I'm not too worried about putting them back on, especially as we are so far apart. They do go in the washing basket each evening though with a new one for the following day.

I've already bought several packs of these, have given lots away cos cheap enough to. I reckon come winter time I'll be using them. Currently using masks but struggling to wear them for long. Brittle asthma. So these being thinner than my masks will be hopefully easier for me to wear.
These gaiters were an idea for a friend with a deformed ear. I personally thought I was a genius for thinking of them, but I guess not so much.

I only care about doing what we can to reduce the spread of the virus while not shitting on vulnerable people

Clear now?

Nope. Because the mask mandate harms those with exemptions more than it helps stop the spread of coronavirus.
Your very position is contradictory. You have of course every right to disagree.
I'm never nit going to think you're anything but a massive hypocrite.

I don't care about 'principles' or loopholes or what people think they can get away with while technically being within the letter of the law

You're judging extreme distress from being forced to wear something which goes against people's principles as a 'loophole', 'getting away with it' or 'a technicality'.
Just like those who belive that about autism or PTSD It's absolutely your right to think this.
I'm never not going to think you're anything but a massive hypocrite.

Oh, and say what you like about me.
I've never reported anyone for anything they've ever said to me on here, so if you do get reported, it won't be from me.