Why does MN hate smokers so much?

[PalmTreesPurple]

Not all of MN of course but I’ve seen a lot of negativity about it. I understand not liking smoking yourself because of the health issues, I’m a smoker after giving up for nearly a year and I was stupid to start again but it’s a nasty addiction to kick. I only smoke outside, in designated smoking areas, and never around people who are eating/close to other people. I also don’t smoke in places like parks or walking through town. It is either in my garden or in a designated spot. Would a smoker like that bother you, or is it people who don’t have any courtesy, or do you just not like smokers in general?

Not being aggressive at all, just very interested.

Would also like to know if anyone on here smokes themselves?

@bluetongue

If it was just the small that would be bad enough. Smokers need to know second hand smoke does effect other people. I have cough variant asthma and get an awful cough and overnight coughing fits if exposed to cigarette smoke for any length of time. I’m not just being precious when I say I can’t handle the smoke.

Absolutely not precious at all. Any smoker with an ounce of consideration should understand that.

[quote Notcoolmum]@Muppetry76 I know. It was high on my list too. And on my dating profile I was clearly I was a non smoker. We started off as casually dating. He knew how I felt about smoking and so has been careful to keep it away from me and our dates. But then I realised I had feelings for him. And people are complex and their value is in more than one aspect of themselves/their choices. He is kind, generous, supportive, funny. Has lots of good qualities. So here we are...[/quote]
I still wouldn't be able to touch him with a bargepole, I feel so strongly about it.

Does he not want to give up? Would he if it was a dealbreaker?

@Notredamn

I am not trying to change her opinion. She has made it clear that she has no doubt she is right and that she has no plans to change her tune at all.

But, that doesn't mean views like hers should go unchallenged.

"I've never met ANYONE in real life who says that they consciously make sure they have no friends that smoke and wouldn't let someone who smokes in their car or houseimagine a colleague actually saying that at work?? We'd all think they were an absolute lunatic.. and VERY unpleasant.. and as soon as they'd gone we'd have a little conversation about THEIR little vices as they're so judgemental about others'.."

But they don't tell you that will they, but they will be thinking it. I had to go to a different site in a colleagues car once there were 5 of us in the car and one said "noone minds if I smoke, do they"? Because noone had ever said anything to her about it, we were all too polite. We all knew she smoked, because she stank of it. Noone answered, but when we got back to the office and she went out for another smoke, every single person said how awful it was and how theyd felt sick etc. So yes, smokers might talk about the one colleague who says something, but non smokers also talk about smokers inan abhorrent way.

There's no right or wrong in this case though, @BranchAndPoppy. Some people feel really strongly about something so dangerous and frankly, scruffy. And that's ok.

11:07BranchAndPoppy

@Notredamn

But you are challenging the unconvertable here. You are on a thread where several people are openly saying how vile they think it is.

[quote Notredamn ]There's no right or wrong in this case though, @BranchAndPoppy. Some people feel really strongly about something so dangerous and frankly, scruffy. And that's ok. [/quote]
Is scruffy the new word for common..?

I mean, I don't know how you could have missed the vast world of difference between someone saying they don't like smoking and what that poster has said on here. I don't like smoking. I mean, what's to like? It stinks, it kills you, it costs ££££. I could go on!

That is not what she said. I won't repeat it again, but it was more than a strong dislike of smoking as a habit, which is something I share.

I stopped hugging or even sitting near my heavy smoker parents when I was about 9. I just couldn't stand it. My mum stopped after a terminal diagnosis but the dye is cast and we never kiss/hug. I am envious of tactile families and am super tactile with my DC. The idea they would find me as repulsive as I found my parents is heart breaking.

And it took them 6 years to sell their house because it was yellow inside and stank.

I don't hate smokers but to be honest the main problem is that they stink.

I used to have a colleague who would go out for a smoke then put her coat on the coat rack half over mine and my coat would end up smelling disgusting. Her hair stank.

I used to smoke professionally and had no bloody idea how much I smelt. But yeah, it makes me retch now.

@Alsohuman
*Even a fiver a day on cigarettes is a STAGGERING £18000 with nothing to show for it

You added an extra 0 there.*

I didn't.

£5 x 365 = £1825

£1825 x 10 years is £18250

So it IS a STAGGERING amount of money to spend on a 10 a day habit.

If you smoke twenty a day its nearly FORTY GRAND. IN TEN YEARS.

I think THIS aspect should be more widely demonstrated in PSHCE at school - sure, teach kids that they might die of a nast smoking-related illness in 50 years, or maybe spend the equivalent of 2/3 the average uk house price?

Is scruffy the new word for common?

Scruffy is the word for scruffy. I don't like the word 'common' myself. Are you trying to moderate language as well as opinions now?

[quote Muppetry76]@Alsohuman
*Even a fiver a day on cigarettes is a STAGGERING £18000 with nothing to show for it

You added an extra 0 there.*

I didn't.

£5 x 365 = £1825

£1825 x 10 years is £18250

So it IS a STAGGERING amount of money to spend on a 10 a day habit.

If you smoke twenty a day its nearly FORTY GRAND. IN TEN YEARS.

I think THIS aspect should be more widely demonstrated in PSHCE at school - sure, teach kids that they might die of a nast smoking-related illness in 50 years, or maybe spend the equivalent of 2/3 the average uk house price?[/quote]
You have a point it’s a lot of money. It’s not your business what others choose to spend their own money on. I’m not a smoker either.

"But they don't tell you that will they, but they will be thinking it. I had to go to a different site in a colleagues car once there were 5 of us in the car and one said "noone minds if I smoke, do they"? Because noone had ever said anything to her about it, we were all too polite. We all knew she smoked, because she stank of it. Noone answered, but when we got back to the office and she went out for another smoke, every single person said how awful it was and how theyd felt sick etc. So yes, smokers might talk about the one colleague who says something, but non smokers also talk about smokers inan abhorrent way."

If that happened as you described, I have to be honest I think you are bullies and not very nice people. I would be really annoyed and disappointed if i heard my (adult) employees treating a colleague like that. It isn't normal. Why would none of you just say that you did mind?? I don't understand why you wouldn't use your words? Lots of people on here enjoying a chance to be incredibly rude (and snobby.. the amount if you who have actually said it 'looks common' - wow) and contemptuous and it's very unpleasant to read.. and the fact that you know none of you would actually say this out loud in rl tells me you know how nasty it is and that people would rightly judge you for that nastiness.

@bananabread8 No, I understand it's their money to spend on what they want, but as the child of 2 heavy smokers who NEVER had a holiday, reliable car or clothes that made me a laughing stock, it is incredibly frustrating.

11:01BranchAndPoppy

@DolphinandDuck, honestly, you are so fixed in your views, convinced that you are right and that the op asked for your thoroughly unpleasant comments. There are much better ways of phrasing your views than you have.

But there isnt. That's how I feel. I was portraying the level of disgust I have for it. And yes, of course I feel I'm right, because that's what I feel. It would be pointless me watering it down, or lying. The op asked for views, I gave my views. I get that you dont like it, not everyone will like anyone elses views, but it would be a sad world if we didnt have them and couldnt express them. Non smokers have not expressed their views for quite a long time. Why shouldn't we express our views, if that's what we feel?

"Sorry you feel as if I have berated you. Your views are some of the worst I have ever read on MN. "

That's because you dont like what I'm saying, and that's fine, I dont expect you to.

"Considering the link between smoking and MH issues and social deprivation, I honestly think your views border on offensive on a more sinister level than just not enjoying the smell of smoke."

What are you trying to say here? You seem obsessed with saying there is a link between smokers and mental health, I think a lot of people just like to smoke. People with mental health issues probably find it harder to give up. As I've said the reason people smoke means very little to me.

"You are determined to assert that you are being victimised here. "

And you are determined to have a go.

"You have stuck your head in the sand,"

No, I've been quite open. It's that openness that has got to you. You cant quite believe people think what I've said.

"your fingers in hour ears and declare you are right, "

That's because I am right, just as much as you believe you think you are right.

"You have the god given right to speak as you do about smokers as they are only filthy smokers, or even former smokers who have given up, after all.

Yes I do. As you have you right to think opposite.

"You are wrong. You have some disgusting views. Ignore me as you like. I know you will. But do not expect me to sit here and let you express those views without them being challenged. It goes both ways. You like brutal honesty? That is exactly what you will get."

You can challenge all you like, but you wont get anywhere, I cant get rid of the disgust I feel around this subject.

"I don’t smoke but I don’t judge those who do, I don’t see it as that different to other other unhealthy choices people make for a variety of reasons, live and let live."

This is the normal attitude - some of you are coming across as fucking unhinged it's be interesting to know what sort of vices you lot have.. I can guess at one that I think will be common funny enough and a lot of the things they've said ab smoking would apply to this one too

Never smoked btw

"Iused to have a colleague who would go out for a smoke then put her coat on the coat rack half over mine and my coat would end up smelling disgusting. Her hair stank.

Yes the coat rack. Only smokers use the coat rack because of this. All the non smokers would put their coat on the back of the chair instead. Then coat racks became redundant.

I am an ex smoker.
My mother and brother still smoke.
Now that I have given up, I see how horrible it is - they constantly smell of smoke, going outside if terrible rain to have a cigarette, always looking for their next opportunity to go outside.
All the years I spent wasting money on expensive perfume was a waste, because I can only see now that I just have STANK everywhere I went - hair, clothes, hands, breath.

The smell actually makes me feel sick when I smell smoke now. Even seeing someone smoke makes it look very unattractive. I don't know how I did it for so long. I suppose I'm at that phase now where I'm just completely revolted by it.

I have also started running a few months back, and can actually breathe and not have an awful cough or wheeze when I stop.

I think once you stop and find other habits/routines, it's a lot easier to see what was so awful about it in the first place.

I don't judge people for smoking, but I'm just very aware of how it looks/smells since I no longer do it

The littering is so disgusting. It's especially jarring when you see fag ends in beauty spots for some reason. A few by the picnic bench at a nature reserve yesterday - just made the place feel so grubby.

Saw some toddlers playing with fag ends on the beach recently too

[quote Notredamn ]They might be surprised because they didn't expect it of you, or maybe you smoke in secret, or very rarely. There are many reasons why people might be surprised you're a smoker @Alsohuman but it's true that everything on you and around stinks to high heavens if you've recently smoked, or even not so recently. It's not a secret and it's your choice you make as a smoker, to have a lingering smell about you. All that nicotine, chemicals etc don't just disappear in...well, a puff of smoke. [/quote]
You do realise you’ve contradicted yourself there through your mental gymnastics to prove yourself right?

I was a ten a day smoker, I smoked openly, frequently in my car with the window open. Quite obviously neither I nor my possessions smelt otherwise there would have been no surprise that I was a smoker. Now I’ve stopped I notice the smell if someone’s just had a cigarette, it’s completely gone in about 30 minutes. I find cheap scent or over zealous use of deodorant more offensive. And obviously an unpleasant smell has no health implications.

"This is the normal attitude - some of you are coming across as fucking unhingedit's be interesting to know what sort of vices you lot have.. I can guess at one that I think will be common funny enough and a lot of the things they've said ab smoking would apply to this one too"

No, that's the attitude you like. Clearly there is a range of feelings on the subject, as there would be on every subject .

some of you are coming across as fucking unhinged

Yep.

Non smokers have not expressed their views for quite a long time. Why shouldn't we express our views, if that's what we feel?

smoking is not allowed inside public spaces anymore and usually is only allowed in designated areas outdoors too. I think this is right. It is the result of campaigning by health professionals and others for decades. This discussion has gone on for many, many years, in many circles. If you honestly have such a victim mentality that you think that non smokers are the ones who have been repressed or have had a hard time of it, I honestly don't know what to say. It is a good thing that smoking in public places doesn't happen now. It is great that cigarette packets are now blank with a picture of cancer etc on the front, hidden away, heavily taxed. Great stuff! But it is just so off base to claim now, in 2020, that non smokers have been silent on the matter. That simply isn't true. You are entitled to your opinions, no matter how strong. But this^^ is just nonsense.

@Notredamn I'm not moderating anything. I am challenging views which I find abhorrent. Not anything to do with disliking smoking, as a habit. To do with othering an entire group of people based on that habit. You and others seem to think that is a perfectly acceptable way to express your views. I don't.

I don't know what you mean by 'scruffy'. That normally means unkempt. I don't see how smoking is unkempt. Unless someone literally covers themselves in fag ash every time they smoke or something.

I haven't contradicted myself.
You just don't want to face that smoking smells and you aren't special in that it doesn't cling to you like it does everyone else. That's fine you can believe what you prefer.

Ah yes, no health implications at all.

"I smoked openly, frequently in my car with the window open:

Ah the old "I open the car window so its fine". For a non smoker, opening the window doesnt make much difference, it still swirls around the inside of the car and affects everyone in it.