Why does MN hate smokers so much?

[PalmTreesPurple]

Not all of MN of course but I’ve seen a lot of negativity about it. I understand not liking smoking yourself because of the health issues, I’m a smoker after giving up for nearly a year and I was stupid to start again but it’s a nasty addiction to kick. I only smoke outside, in designated smoking areas, and never around people who are eating/close to other people. I also don’t smoke in places like parks or walking through town. It is either in my garden or in a designated spot. Would a smoker like that bother you, or is it people who don’t have any courtesy, or do you just not like smokers in general?

Not being aggressive at all, just very interested.

Would also like to know if anyone on here smokes themselves?

@Russellbrandshair

I think you are being disingenuous. It is perfectly possible to empathise and feel sorry for people for one aspect of their lives, without infantalising them and while also believing that, ultimately, they are adults who need to make their own choices.
That is a world away from saying that all smokers are subhuman and deserve all the hate they can get.

As for not having time to go around pitying people all the time / being obsessed by it; that is a bit silly. As I'm sure you don't need to be told, it is perfectly possible to feel pity about one aspect of certain people's lives without becoming obsessed with that one feeling. Much like feeling anything about another person doesn't suddenly become and obsession because you feel that one feeling about one aspect of their lives.

Even a fiver a day on cigarettes is a STAGGERING £18000 with nothing to show for it

You added an extra 0 there.

Alsohuman it's true I'm afraid. Pp didn't make it up- the reek gets everywhere. I had a house from smokers and I had the place fumigated, put in new flooring and carpets and redecorated. Paint work was literally yellow.

Again I ask, why buy a house from a smoker if it’s so grim? And that’s not the same as everything they own and every place they go smells utterly revolting which simply isn’t true

I think you are being disingenuous. It is perfectly possible to empathise and feel sorry for people for one aspect of their lives, without infantalising them and while also believing that, ultimately, they are adults who need to make their own choices.
That is a world away from saying that all smokers are subhuman and deserve all the hate they can get

Ah Then you should have used the word empathy but you didn’t, you said pity.

I’ve worked on detox wards and the crux of all addiction recovery programmes is personal responsibility. You won’t find a recovery regime anywhere that bases it’s success on other people’s pity, or even empathy. That doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be empathic, but it’s not what recovery from addiction hinges upon. It hinges on taking responsibility of your life, your choices and at the same time empowering yourself to take control of that. If love from others were enough to fix addiction then it would t be the huge problem it is. Plenty of addicts have love- they have family members who adore them, love them to the moon and back and would do anything for them to get well and guess what- it’s still not enough. It has to be a personal choice to get clean. Of course it’s better to have empathic, loving and supportive people around you but that isn’t what drives recovery. If it did, then no addicts with loving families would relapse and no addicts without family could ever recover and that fact is, both happens.

The key to recovering from addiction is personal responsibility and it’s why programmes like AA have achieved the success they have.

It is true though. I said upthread smokers always weirdly argue that they don’t smell/their stuff doesn’t smell.

But they do, and it does.

@Russellbrandshair

Yes, as you will see up thread, I lost my mum to alcoholism, so I am fairly well educated in that sort of issue unfortunately. She actually had recovered by the time she died but sadly it was too late. I agree, that recovery has to come from the addict. I don't think pity is the wrong word actually. I both empathise with and pity smokers for the position in which they find themselves. Being addicted to a poisonous substance which kills you is an awful place to be and I do pity anyone who is in that position.

@OhCaptain

It is true though. I said upthread smokers always weirdly argue that they don’t smell/their stuff doesn’t smell.

But they do, and it does.

Not always. If that was true, why were so many people surprised to discover I was a smoker?

People who smoke indoors certainly make things smell. It's not AS bad if you don't smoke indoors but can still be noticeable sometimes.
My parents both smoked indoors when I was young and they're heavy smokers.
I was constantly being accused of smoking when I was at school because teachers could smell it on me. I've never smoked once, mostly thanks to being raised by smokers.

Pity directly negates personal responsibility. Treating people with pity implies they have no choice or control of their own destiny. Pity places the addict in the role of victim which makes it harder for them to escape. So no, I don’t agree that pity is helpful, appropriate or has a place in addiction recovery.

I think it’s actually toxic and keeps people psychologically trapped in their own addiction.

@Alsohuman because I wanted the house lol.

There is A LOT of free help to give up, GP surgeries have giving up smoking clinics, there are vapes, support groups, specialist nurses who run giving up smoking groups etc If someone chooses not to access that, why on earth should I pity them?

You must be kidding. I work for our local CCG - all smokestop services have been cut. There are none. You can speak to a pharmacist about NRT available over the counter and that’s it. Ten years ago there were various options here including specialist nurses. Our surgery had this until two years ago. It’s all gone now. The only people who can access more than this are pregnant women, rather than giving women the support to quit before they got pregnant.

They might be surprised because they didn't expect it of you, or maybe you smoke in secret, or very rarely. There are many reasons why people might be surprised you're a smoker @Alsohuman but it's true that everything on you and around stinks to high heavens if you've recently smoked, or even not so recently. It's not a secret and it's your choice you make as a smoker, to have a lingering smell about you. All that nicotine, chemicals etc don't just disappear in...well, a puff of smoke.

@Russellbrandshair

Pity directly negates personal responsibility. Treating people with pity implies they have no choice or control of their own destiny. Pity places the addict in the role of victim which makes it harder for them to escape. So no, I don’t agree that pity is helpful, appropriate or has a place in addiction recovery.

I think it’s actually toxic and keeps people psychologically trapped in their own addiction.

You're right. But I am not in the business of helping smokers overcome their addiction. You do this for a living and you are absolutely right, I am sure, to argue that the word pity is unhelpful for those in recovery. I'm sure that your training has been never to utter the word pity, as that might not help them feel empowered.

But, as a human being, rather than a professional dealing with addiction recover, I do pity them the position they are in. That doesn't mean I think they are just victims who should roll over.

Another thing is that, by the time professionals like you see addicts, they already have got to a place where they are willing to accept some help, I think? Before that, I personally think love and compassion can go some way to helping them get to that place. This is the part you don't see before your patients come to you perhaps.

I also feel that calling them disgusting, "infected" for life, even if they manage to quit, a former smoker is as bad as someone who has committed murder to me, as one poster on here has said, is far more damaging and less helpful.

If it was just the small that would be bad enough. Smokers need to know second hand smoke does effect other people. I have cough variant asthma and get an awful cough and overnight coughing fits if exposed to cigarette smoke for any length of time. I’m not just being precious when I say I can’t handle the smoke.

"You didn't just say you don't like smokers though did you? You said that even long after smokers have quit a very difficult habit to overcome, you believe them to be infected. That when someone you like otherwise reveals that they were once a smoker you are as disgusted as if you were driving past a field of muck, that you would no longer feel anything much for that person, that you would feel the same as if they had said they once murdered someone."

Yes I did say that and I stand by that because that is how I feel. I suspect I'm not alone in that as I've said a colleague turned to me once saying she didnt want to sit next to a colleague because she stank and she pulled a face just like she'd driven past a field of muck. Sk she clearly has the same level of disgust as I do. To be clear here, the op has clearly asked why people hate smoking and smokers and I've been clear about what I feel in my responses. You've berated me as my responses have been too honest for you. I'm not apologising for that. I'm not sure why you keep repeating me, I can only guess you are hoping others will jump on and agree with you. Well not many have. I called you "dear" because you blatantly misread a post a few pages back and assumed I am a teacher, because another teacher replied to me. You have no reason to call me "dear", but go ahead if you like. You've attacked me personally throughout this thread for expressing my feelings, which werent aimed at you personally. You have attacked me personally. Even so, I will politely explain my views on smoking as I wish.

"If all you'd said was that you didn't like smokers, I still wouldn't agree with you, but I would probably not have noticed you among all the many others on here. The reason I spoke to you in the first place is because your views are unusual."

And what if you think they are? The op asked for views, she will get a range of views. I am not alone in thinking what I do. Others around me have purported the same, in that they find it utterly disgusting.

Partly it replaces looking down on the poor, unemployed, homeless etc as you're not allowed to these days :)

Also some people got the wrong idea about "dangerous to those near you" and think it's a cross between climbing inside a nuclear reactor and kissing an ebola victim.

It's not everyone. Only the very shallow would do it for the first reason and only the really stupid for the second.

There are some real reasons like smell, but I don't drink any more and I can tell you drinkers that you reek of that and don't get me started on those of you who could use a shower.

Part of living in a society is putting up with small annoyances from other people in return for them putting up with yours.

Oh one more reason might be encouraging kids to start smoking by example, but while there's all those drinking and driving, drinking and punching partners and drinking and accidentally raping people I think the moral high ground is standing empty.

And "love and compassion" doesn't have to mean you enable them. It means you treat them as human beings.

You don't write addicts off for life as "as bad as a murderer" because you don't like the way they smell or whatever, say "ugh I've got the world's smallest violin for you" and so on. To me, that just isn't humane.

If I was a professional dealing with addicts in a clinical setting, I might have techniques which are more specific or which on the face of it, appeared to be a bit less fluffy and nice, but which I would know are effective.

Since I don't have that training, I will continue to think that addicts are rarely having a good time and often come to be addicts because they have been unlucky in some way. That aspect doesn't matter to you as a professional. Because your job is not to provide that sort of compassion. Relatives of addicts, (except in extreme circumstances), tend to continue to love and try to understand their relatives who are struggling with addiction. That isn't your job though.

"OhCaptain

It is true though. I said upthread smokers always weirdly argue that they don’t smell/their stuff doesn’t smell."

"But they do, and it does."

"Not always. If that was true, why were so many people surprised to discover I was a smoker?"

Yes always. theres nearly 20 pages of people on here telling you it does. They were being polite. Theyd have hardly said "yes we know, we can smell it". And if it was a long time go, there were more smokers around so barely a day went by when you didnt smell of smoke. Everywhere you went you were consumed by it.

BINGO! "smoking makes you look 'common"

Accidentally raping people? I'm sorry, what??

@DolphinandDuck, honestly, you are so fixed in your views, convinced that you are right and that the op asked for your thoroughly unpleasant comments. There are much better ways of phrasing your views than you have.

Sorry you feel as if I have berated you. Your views are some of the worst I have ever read on MN. Considering the link between smoking and MH issues and social deprivation, I honestly think your views border on offensive on a more sinister level than just not enjoying the smell of smoke.

You are determined to assert that you are being victimised here. You have stuck your head in the sand, your fingers in hour ears and declare you are right, you have the god given right to speak as you do about smokers as they are only filthy smokers, or even former smokers who have given up, after all. You are wrong. You have some disgusting views. Ignore me as you like. I know you will. But do not expect me to sit here and let you express those views without them being challenged. It goes both ways. You like brutal honesty? That is exactly what you will get.

[quote Notredamn ]Accidentally raping people? I'm sorry, what?? [/quote]
I was surprised and disgusted that someone managed to get their rape apologist views out as well.

@BranchAndPoppy you can't castigate someone into changing their opinion.

I've never met ANYONE in real life who says that they consciously make sure they have no friends that smoke and wouldn't let someone who smokes in their car or house imagine a colleague actually saying that at work?? We'd all think they were an absolute lunatic.. and VERY unpleasant.. and as soon as they'd gone we'd have a little conversation about THEIR little vices as they're so judgemental about others'..