12 year old arrested

[Pixxie7]

Do you think the police acted appropriately given that they had a tip off that a boy was waving a gun around.

I am surprised so many people think unarmed police should just knock on the doors of suspected armed men and ask them if they have guns. "oh no gun you say, so sorry to have bothered you".

Police lives matter as well.

Agreed, and many people are comfortable with that as they don’t they will be the target for it.

Agree, @Cadent.

And deep down they believe that what happens in cases like this is that obviously guilty parties are getting what they deserve.

It's hard to believe that England gave the world the idea of habeas corpus and used to understand the philosophy of innocent until proven guilty that lies behind it, and was proud that the principle became a foundation stone of the law.

Yes, you have missed it, @TooFrickinHot.

I am surprised so many people think unarmed police should just knock on the doors of suspected armed men and ask them if they have guns. "oh no gun you say, so sorry to have bothered you".

Is this what you think has been said, @ZombieFan?

[quote mathanxiety]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras
What should the police have done in your view?

I have posted what they should have done.

They should have asked detailed questions of the caller who reported it, for starters.
You can go back over my posts yourself and find what I have said.

Also - and I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand - they shouldn't have arrested a twelve year old child who had not pointed the gun at anyone, who had not waved the gun around, after they knew it was a BB gun.[/quote]
Why? He was arrested while the scene was secured and investigated and the dearrested. That's what happens.

Plus he's 12. Age of criminal responsibility in UK is 10.

As for police asking caller questions you have no idea what questions were asked. They might have conducted in-depth questioning but the most important part couldn't be investigated without seeing the gun and for that police had to attend. They are not going to turn up unarmed to reports of a gun are they?

@mathanxiety

Agreed, and many people are comfortable with that as they don’t they will be the target for it.

Agree, @Cadent.

And deep down they believe that what happens in cases like this is that obviously guilty parties are getting what they deserve.

It's hard to believe that England gave the world the idea of habeas corpus and used to understand the philosophy of innocent until proven guilty that lies behind it, and was proud that the principle became a foundation stone of the law.

Innocent until proven guilty still stands here.

They responded to reports of gun.

Turned up and investigated as if gun was present which including detaining the boy. Arrested on suspicion is t a charge.

When they found out it wasn't a real gun he was released.

So he wasn't charged and wasn't assumed guilty of that charge until a court found otherwise.

But @mathanxiety my understanding is that they arrested him and then searched the house and when they realised it was a BB gun they dearrested him. They didn't arrest him after finding the gun

Maybe @mathanxiety is the mother, or the child, or the caller. Or just making up their own version of events to suit an agenda.

It's meant to be 51% bright colour to help prevent these incidents.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras
Oh the irony of asserting a brighter colour would help prevent these incidents. Indeed, a difference in colour might well have helped.

And the stupidity of the reasoning there - what's to prevent someone painting their illegal handgun neon pink?

@mathanxiety

Well from what I can see on this thread it's an assumption you've made and hasn't actually been confirmed..

@mathanxiety Yes that is an accurate summary of what many posters on here are saying.

@mathanxiety

It's meant to be 51% bright colour to help prevent these incidents.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras
Oh the irony of asserting a brighter colour would help prevent these incidents. Indeed, a difference in colour might well have helped.

And the stupidity of the reasoning there - what's to prevent someone painting their illegal handgun neon pink?

Nothing stops them.

Fact remains the law states that these innocent BB guns you keep banging on about should be 51% bright colour to help prevent misidentification. So, had it looked like a legal BB gun things might have been very different. Maybe that's what led police to take the report more seriously? Not only did it look like a real gun, it didn't look like a BB gun because it was all dark colour.

People are tying themselves up in knots worrying about a boy who was clearly very bored and yawning in the interview. He was completely fine.

The police put them selves in danger every day. This was a generic response to possibly a very dangerous situation to them.

The first time we are in danger - we phone the police. Yet when they may be in a dangerous situation they are now being expected to tip toe around so they don’t offend anyone.

Fuck that. My friend is a female officer with two kids. These protocols are set up to protect the very people that protect you.

@Fijibikini

People are tying themselves up in knots worrying about a boy who was clearly very bored and yawning in the interview. He was completely fine.

The police put them selves in danger every day. This was a generic response to possibly a very dangerous situation to them.

The first time we are in danger - we phone the police. Yet when they may be in a dangerous situation they are now being expected to tip toe around so they don’t offend anyone.

Fuck that. My friend is a female officer with two kids. These protocols are set up to protect the very people that protect you.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Exactly.

Innocent until proven guilty still stands here.

Only in theory. As long as people applaud disproportionate responses from police, throw up their hands and ask, 'What else could they have done?' believing the level of crime (as luridly described by media whose stock in trade is manipulative reporting) warrants weaponised policing, that principle is in danger.

It's too late to apologise when a citizen is killed. The British public are being asked to accept American levels of response and the American elements of risk assessment where crime is concerned, and it seems from this thread that many posters are happy to throw centuries of principle out the window and agree that the end justifies whatever means it takes.

@mathanxiety

Agreed, and many people are comfortable with that as they don’t they will be the target for it.

Agree, @Cadent.

And deep down they believe that what happens in cases like this is that obviously guilty parties are getting what they deserve.

It's hard to believe that England gave the world the idea of habeas corpus and used to understand the philosophy of innocent until proven guilty that lies behind it, and was proud that the principle became a foundation stone of the law.

Innocent until proven guilty doesn’t apply to being arrested. You don’t understand your own legal system.

This thread is ludicrous.

If I was walking past a persons house and saw them with what I believed was a handgun I would call the police.

I wouldn’t stop and google the intricacies of the UK system for legal gun ownership first just to make sure I wasn’t overreacting

Maybe it’s more difficult for Americans to understand - but the fact is, we don’t see guns in the UK. The vast majority of people in the UK don’t know anyone with a gun and have never seen one before.

I live in a houseful of boys and have bloody toy guns everywhere. Not one of them looks remotely like a real gun.

If I saw what appeared to be a real gun, I’d think it was a gun not a toy or a legal BB or whatever. Just like if I saw someone with a realistic looking machete, I’d assume it was an actual machete because I’ve never seen a real-looking toy one.

Robust and decisive action by the police is needed EVERY SINGLE TIME a report of a gun is received in the UK. I think the police did a great job here.

BB guns look real and they can take out an eye. Police had no option but to act and colour of kid would not be relevant.

Including the red dots guiding bullet placement on his sister's heads?

@Fijibikini
Are you saying the police never get it wrong?

Or are you saying that even though they get it wrong sometimes they should be given a free pass because they are often right, and security is worth any price in terms of the lives of others?

Or are you saying that even though they get it wrong sometimes they need not be accountable to the public they serve, need not operate according to principles that embody the values of society?

Or are you saying that society actually has values that are completely different from those so often trumpeted by British politicians complaining about human rights and civil rights infractions in other countries?

Your post is an example of the slippery slope into a police state in action.

My adult son uses air soft guns that look very realistic. He is not allowed to keep them in our home. He rents a lock up to keep them in. Within the lock up they are kept in a gun safe. Irisponsible to have guns that look realistic within a home especially as they can harm people.

The British public are being asked to accept American levels of response and the American elements of risk assessment where crime is concerned

No they are not. The U.K. police response is nothing like the US response. For starters, the passer by would never have called because having a (even loaded) handgun in the same room as a kid is not illegal. Why do you think 8 kids die every day in the US from self inflicted gun wounds?

I just want to add - Shaun Merser was 16 when he accidentally shot and killed Reece Jones (11) whilst he was aiming for some one else. I can see why the police take such drastic action. Guns kill people. If your suspected of having one they are going to come heavy handed.

Why the hell would you have BB gun just hanging around anyway? The don’t fire out bubbles.

@ShinyFootball

Including the red dots guiding bullet placement on his sister's heads?

Most guns have red dot sights these days. It’s nothing new.

It wasn't an imitation gun. Can no one read the reports?! It was a toy BB gun. In their home. He wasn't running up and down the streets brandishing a firearm - despite what your prejudices are against black kids: Changing the story just so aggression against the black community especially children can be excused.

Grow up! Someone doesn't have to be running amok in the streets brandishing a firearm to be capable of killing! A policeman here was killed recently after pulling over a vehicle for a minor traffic infringement. The same thing could have happened if a couple of officers turned up at a house to speak to someone about a reported gun. They have to take these things seriously - and do you honestly think they would have acted differently had it been a white person? If you do then you really have no clues.