12 year old arrested

[Pixxie7]

Do you think the police acted appropriately given that they had a tip off that a boy was waving a gun around.

Well said EnoughAlready2020. The undercurrent of racism in some of the posts on here is plain to see. Some of these posters should take a good look at themselves.

The posters who think the police should risk their lives by knocking on the door to ask nicely if the gun is real are the ones who need to take a good look at themselves

Maybe the Home Office could assemble a group of mn volunteers who could respond to calls such as these, to ask nicely if the gun is real or not before SO19 gets called in? No? Why not?

Swatting or malicious reporting of an armed individual at a specific address is very much a thing. It might be that this was a case of a good faith report but the next time your 12/13 year old has an argument online while gaming or falls out with a kid at school it could be your door the police are knocking on

Well yes, but if it was malicious in intent they wouldn't find anything, and perhaps a parent would open the door.

hear Which reminds me of when Sophie Khan said that when a person is running at police with a knife they should talk to them, ask them why they had it and what they were going to do, rather than taser them

I assume this has now been on the news a number of bored DC might find it fun to falsely report sightings of guns to see armed police turn up

@Nicknacky

hear Which reminds me of when Sophie Khan said that when a person is running at police with a knife they should talk to them, ask them why they had it and what they were going to do, rather than taser them

Exactly. It's interesting how people who say such things expect others to risk their lives implementing them. Same as the posters on here demanding that unarmed police politely knock on the door and ask if they might have a look at the gun shaped object, if it's not too much bother.

Would they be prepared to do it? You know the answer would be no because they would recognise the danger but they're quite happy to let others do it.

@SmileEachDay

That’s a good point Nicky.

@Gobbycop

Do the police have a process of reflecting on arrests of BAME people which allows them to discuss any potential racial element? If so, how does it work and if not, do you think it would be a good idea?

I think you may be on to something Smile.

Hear

I agree that the police do an important and difficult job.

Do you think it’s reasonable to look at some of the statistics on the link I posted upthread and wonder what the force as a whole is doing about it? Or how individual officers are supported to do something about it?

@Nicknacky

hear Which reminds me of when Sophie Khan said that when a person is running at police with a knife they should talk to them, ask them why they had it and what they were going to do, rather than taser them

People do actually have these views and it's bloody scary!

When ds was 11 he was being bullied in school by another pupil in his year. Twice the child pinned ds up against the wall and both times having not released ds when he tried he responded by kicking the child hard in the shins.
Both times ds was suspended alongside the other child for using violence.

One day this child pulled a knife from their pocket and held it towards ds. Da grabbed his wrist and then pushed him away hard with other hand because he wanted to get away and didn't want other child to be able to immediately chase him.

I involved police. School tried very hard to minimise it and state child said he carried knife as he was scared of ds and also it was only a cutlery knife so da didn't need to respond how he did and can't believe mum called police etc.

I told police they had indeed been altercations before and I'd had meeting 2 weeks previously about it. I said they could see all incident reports etc.

Police saw them. Then gave the school what for as absolutely no evidence anywhere my ds has ever done anything wrong or was a threat and he was absolutely entitled to respond to the immediate threat without waiting to see if a) child would stab him and b) of the knife was in Fact a dangerous weapon or not.

Anyway long story short my ds was traumatised and despite what police said school still insisted he had no reason to be anxious. He had to move schools and have 6 months of specialist CBT through Camhs (he's autistic).

I suspect because anyone can say they’re anyone they want to be on an anonymous forum. That person has also been very light on detail / law

You're correct there. However if I was going to walt around on an anonymous forum I'd say I was in the sas or something.
It's not glamorous and it's not something where mistakes are tolerated.
I could give you chapter and verse on firearms tactics but why would I do that?
I could well lose my job. Plus it's not for common knowledge.
There's already too much on tv showing tactics and training.
The story has already changed from cops bursting in and little girls being lit up with lazers. I'm not even sure metpol use lazers on their guns? Could easily find out as I've got plenty of mates that transferred into the met.
It looks like it was an armed enquiry which would tie in with the information they reviewed.
They didn't just burst in did they? That was the daily fail hamming it up.

With regards to the bame question I'm not aware of any standalone dept though could be wrong all police services (forces) operate differently.
Any complaints from either persons arrested or from officers that have witnessed wrong doing are investigated though. I doubt anywhere arrests of bame persons are automatically investigated.
There's not enough police around to just do the basics.

@SmileEachDay

Hear

I agree that the police do an important and difficult job.

Do you think it’s reasonable to look at some of the statistics on the link I posted upthread and wonder what the force as a whole is doing about it? Or how individual officers are supported to do something about it?

And that has what relevance to this thread? We're discussing a specific case, not policing as a whole. Could you point to where police were racist in this case?

That’s not really how discussions work Hear.

I have no idea if the police involved were racially motivated, or if there actions throughout were different because the kid was black.
But I do think looking at that within a wider context is relevant.

If you don’t want to engage in that it’s your choice, of course.

Had the police even seen the gun?

From the reporting it sounds like they just took the word of some rando who had been peering in other people's windows. Unless there's a massive MASSIVE backstory it seems like a colossal overreaction.

@ineedaholidaynow

I assume this has now been on the news a number of bored DC might find it fun to falsely report sightings of guns to see armed police turn up

Good way to deal with CF neighbours too, I can imagine. #sweetrevenge

It's not an overreaction.

Gun reported. Turn up ready tomorrow to selves hours it be a real gun.

Investigate safely.

Make appropriate reaction afterwards dependent on validity of report.

Do this whether person reported is black, white or alien green.

Venice How do you suggest they get a look at the gun? Or are you saying no reports of weapons should be investigated unless an officer sees it?

A rando???

And why would the police need to see the gun? The ramifications of that are ridiculous!!!

@AuntyPasta

Put toy gun into Amazon and this sponsored result comes up.

This is a legal toy. It’s apparently also justification to raid someone’s home with armed police. If the second point is accepted, as a passer by might honestly mistake it as a ‘real gun’ why the fuck are they legal?

That isn't a legal toy it is a replica firearm and does not comply with the law in this country, not that Amazon care. it is legally required to be at least 51% a bright colour such as orange, yellow or pink, or for things such as reenactments home office approval is required.

The way this country is going police are going to be afraid to stop and search people incase they get accused of racial profiling .

It will be just like the Rotherham paedophile ring all over again

Herebychoice this is about the 12 year old child and a bb gun.

I know a 12 year old who pulled a knife on his mum and was taller then my mum. 12 year olds can be threat, but age is irrelevant as the poice din,t know the so called perpetrator was going to be a child.

Camden boy's toy gun arrest leaves mother 'petrified
"If we live in a world where children can face being shot by police for having a toy gun, which are not illegal, then something is not right", she said

This is London, not America

I think the problem in these cases is the reporting.

The police didn't know it was a toy gun when they went in.
The boy wasn't arrested but detained while they searched the house. - I mean if there is report of an armed person with a gun are police supposed to let them roam around the property whilst they search it - ridiculous idea, let's face it.
The police did not shoot anyone - I think it's wrong of the reporter to quote that.

Yes it's London not the USA and normally our police are not armed - guns are owned by a minority not a majority largely due to police being vigilant. But does she want police NOT to do searches or raids on houses with reports of arms?
Will the BBC come back tomorrow with an explanation of how police procedures work - no, being the BBC and like most media, they prefer to stir people up with implication of hard headed racist behaviour.
The most annoying part is that people follow the media like sheep instead of using some thought and common sense.

The way this country is going police are going to be afraid to stop and search people incase they get accused of racial profiling

The fact is, young black men are far, far more likely to be stopped and searched. Far more likely to be treated forcefully. There is no point in ignoring that.

It will be just like the Rotherham paedophile ring all over again

This is incredibly unhelpful rhetoric. Open and honest discussion- particularly within the police force will work to prevent situations “like Rotherham” - the less institutional racism there is, the freer the police are to actually look at crime. That’s true of any large organisation.

Rotherham had far more to do with the lack of protection given to girls in or leaving the care system.

The fact is, young black men are far, far more likely to be stopped and searched. Far more likely to be treated forcefully. There is no point in ignoring that.

But the vast majority of knife crime in London is commited by young, black men. Stop and search being conducted on a disproportionate number of black men isn't that wild really. However, the real fix is to try and address the systemic and institutionalised racism that leaves a particular group of people more likely to be involved. If there were a load of young, white men being stabbed, no doubt there would be demands for something to be done to find out why, and to try and remedy it; and it is criminal this isn't the case. Rather than fight to reduce stop and search when there is actually a need for it because it's out of control in parts and blaming the police, we should be fighting for a resolution to make life better for them, and for everyone.

From the reporting it sounds like they just took the word of some rando

Who else's word should they take? Who do you think reports the vast majority of crimes / incidences etc? You don't need to have any special qualifications.