12 year old arrested

[Pixxie7]

Do you think the police acted appropriately given that they had a tip off that a boy was waving a gun around.

We are being led into believing this was a racist response by the media reporting

I’m not assuming it’s a racist response. I’m saying that we need to openly consider whether it is - or, more importantly, the police do.

I’m not saying that because of media reporting - I’m saying it because of statistics like the ones in this link that I posted up thread.

A blind refusal to accept that there could be a racist element to this case means you are absolutely part of the problem.

I know this is massively hypocritical of me as I too missed this detail, but for those of you who have just posted, they arrested him AFTER learning that the gun was fake. It makes it more likely that it’s racially motivated, as wrongful arrests often are - even if it was just the officers thinking “Shit, it’s a toy, don’t want to be accused of racism as the owner is black, better arrest him to cover ourselves.”

@thecatsthecats

What we see is filtered through our bias

I completely agree. And I am seeing more bias against the police than anything else on this thread.

Police vs Black family = police MUST have been in the wrong, amiright?

Except that automatically treating police actions as wrong harshens the racial divide and damages the ability of the police to provide policing to black communities. Which isn't good for those communities!

A safe community is one where the police are trusted to handle situations appropriately and do their job. Crime can't happen half so easily if there are dozens of witnesses ready to invite the police to attend and intervene.

In this case, the police acted reasonably, however much some bleat about the unfairness of a kid being entitled to wave a realistic looking weapon around in their house. As for "playing with" - I can't see how you play with a gun without pointing it at things or people. I can't speak for how old the boy looked, but I personally was taken for 16 as a tall and developed (white) 12yo. This was viewed through a window - not in a convenient screenshot.

Very well said.

Maybe posters would like police to disregard all further reports of possession of a gun if the person is black? Is that what they are saying?

My son would never have been allowed to have anything like this, therefore our house has never been raised at night by SO19. Our colour or white privilege isn't the reason, our common sense as parents is.

@SmileEachDay

We are being led into believing this was a racist response by the media reporting

I’m not assuming it’s a racist response. I’m saying that we need to openly consider whether it is - or, more importantly, the police do.

I’m not saying that because of media reporting - I’m saying it because of statistics like the ones in this link that I posted up thread.

A blind refusal to accept that there could be a racist element to this case means you are absolutely part of the problem.

I've never said I'm not open to assuming there is a racist element.

It's very possible the person who made the report did so due to racial bias.

But police respond to firearms reports and weapons reports under a policy. They are then investigated to check they followed policy.
I'd be more concerned if they didn't respond to reports of a gun seriously. Regardless of race.

We also do not know the race, ethnicity and sex if the officers who responded.

We need far more information to consider whether race was involved. It just a media outlet continuously repeating in a report it was a 'black child'.

If the child being black is relevant so is the race of all involved.

@xolotltezcatlopoca

SimonJT, it's a very silly comment to make. Most toy guns are vivid coloured(like nerf guns) and nothing like real. My child is a mixed race child, but never thought like you do.

As a brown person who was stopped and searched after being dragged into a park toilet by the police for having an orange water gun (age 15) while my three white friends weren’t searched, it most definitely isn’t a silly comment.

Where does it say he was arrested after the gun was found to not be real?

In the interview mum says he opened the front door and she came downstairs to see him handcuffed, and his sister's told him to calm down because he was struggling. It sounds like that all happened as officers entered the property. They then searched the house for an hour the mum said.

I've never said I'm not open to assuming there is a racist element

No you haven’t. Lots of people on the thread have though.

I somehow completely missed that they arrested him AFTER establishing that the gun was fake. I assumed that they arrested him upon arrival at the house.
That makes it much worse. How, exactly, did they justify that decision??

If he was using it to threaten someone, or recklessly, in such a way that it made someone fear for their own safety, then it is still an arrestable offence. TBH - I think this should have been a good lesson for this young man not to mess about with guns.

As it is, his mother has made him the centre of attention and a hero and it will probably just confirm that he can do as he likes.

@mathanxiety
Ah ok. I see, I really know very little about American society and presumed it was for protection. Not necessarily to own a gun, rather how to use one if he was confronted with someone wielding one. I’m really glad you have a much more straightforward and positive reason.

In the BBC report it said that they arrested the boy and took him into the van and then searched the house and found the ‘toy’ gun and then dearrested him.

@Heygirlheyboy

I had no idea bb guns were illegal. Our delightful 6yo neighbour stood at the end of our driveway a few weeks ago pointing and shooting one at my dc despite being asked not to. His mother's calling of his pet name failed to stop him so she just went back in Good to know I can tell him it's against the law.

If it definitely was a BB gun, perhaps you would consider contacting the police? His mother needs talking to.

f he was using it to threaten someone, or recklessly, in such a way that it made someone fear for their own safety, then it is still an arrestable offence
Where have you got this from? I can’t see any reporting that suggests this.

TBH - I think this should have been a good lesson for this young man not to mess about with guns

The police do not arrest people to “teach them a lesson”. This would be illegal - plus, do you have ANY idea how overstretched police resources are??

As it is, his mother has made him the centre of attention and a hero and it will probably just confirm that he can do as he likes

How has his mother done this?

Smile
She’s made him centre of attention because she is perpetuating the falsehood that it is a toy, secondly that the police overreacted, lastly that it was racial profiling. Instead she should have taken a long look at herself and apologised to her ds for fucking up. Oh and lastly and most importantly giving photos, allowing him to be interviewed and so forth.

SmileEachDay, I agree there are things need to be considered as racial issue or not. This statement says it all about you.

"A blind refusal to accept that there could be a racist element to this case means you are absolutely part of the problem."

As for me, I am not blindly refusing it, I am saying in this matter, the fact that the child had a gun which looks real and do damage, and his mother let him have it is a more serious matter and police have responded accordingly to the seriousness of the matter.

People like you are the ones making things even worse, tbh. Shouting everything is racial and saying people who think otherwise is a racist or the part of the problem.
As for the arrest, we don't really know how it went. They may have responded badly, resisted to cooperate. Or maybe the police went ott. Who knows. But I would rather police take it seriously.

I'm a current armed officer in the UK.

Glad most of you recognise you can't just send unarmed cops around based on this information.

That's how firearms jobs play out, based on information received.

It's piss easy to be an expert on the matter in hindsight with all the details isn't it?

The daily mail article is hopeless, they haven't got a clue.

Do people not seem to understand that this child was sitting IN HIS OWN HOUSE when SO19 came armed and arrested him in the middle of the night???

• he wasn't waving the toy gun around in a public place
• he wasn't an adult or a "big strapping lad"

Completely disproportionate and OTT response from the police. This child will be absolutely traumatised by this experience.

@ineedaholidaynow

In the BBC report it said that they arrested the boy and took him into the van and then searched the house and found the ‘toy’ gun and then dearrested him.

That's what I'm confused about - why are people saying he was arrested after they ascertained it was not a real gun?

@DeltaAlphaDelta

The police had a report that someone was seen in a house with a gun. The Police responded entirely appropriately, especially given the gun looked so realistic.

If the Police had done nothing, they would have been criticised too.

Absolute non issue as far as the Police response is concerned in my book.

This

@Gobbycop

I'm a current armed officer in the UK.

Glad most of you recognise you can't just send unarmed cops around based on this information.

That's how firearms jobs play out, based on information received.

It's piss easy to be an expert on the matter in hindsight with all the details isn't it?

The daily mail article is hopeless, they haven't got a clue.

Thank you for what you do.

I for one appreciate the risks you take to keep us safe.

As the report received by the police said....' passer-by who said they saw a "black male holding a firearm on the sofa", in Medburn Street, Camden.'

You can hardly blame the police. They didn't know it was a child.

xolotltezcatlopoca

If you read all my posts, I agree that we don’t know if there was a racial element in this case.

I haven’t “shouted that everything is racist” - I do think we need to ensure we consider whether racism was part of any case involving black people. If you’re not prepared to do that then you are part of the problem. If that doesn’t apply to you, then that’s great. .

Or a toy gun.

SimonJT, why do you need to keep saying as a brown person? And also
"being dragged into a park toilet by the police" why do they need to drag him/her into the toilet? That sounds like something to make a complaint in the first place. It's inappropriate.

Oh and lastly and most importantly giving photos, allowing him to be interviewed and so forth

I kind of agree with this I think. I also don’t agree with any kid having a toy gun of any sort.

@lozengeoflove

Read ‘Ghost Boys’.

Eh? Are you just going to toss that into the thread with no context? Why should we read Ghost Boys? How is it relevant to the topic being discussed?