To think unless you are actually medically exempt you can't get out of wearing a mask?

[Simsie]

People on social media are telling others to download a basic picture of text saying "I am exempt from wearing a mask" to present at supermarkets if they don't want to wear a mask.

Not medically exempt, no hidden disabilities, just for those don't want to wear one.

Surely that crap isn't going to work?

"I hope folk who are nervous about going out, genuinely because they can't wear a mask, will feel a bit better and less stressed when they venture out as they SHOULD be able to do."

"Does that include the extremely clinically vulnerable (shielded) disabled people too? Who should be able to venture out (from next weekend) without feeling nervous or stressed?"

I don't why you insist on trying to pit one group against the other especially considering that a large number of people are in both groups.

Although your lack of thought for the needs of anyone with autism/a learning disability/ mental health issues has been noticeable throughout lockdown.

It would suit this government very well if this turned into shielding group vs. unable to wear a mask group, and if everyone squabbled amongst themselves instead of holding the government to account for their extremely poor handling of this pandemic, including their frankly horrific 'shielding' policy.

It's really important that we ALL resist this type of divide-and-conquer rhetoric.

I understand the fear of people who have been shielding. Less than three weeks ago the government was still telling you it was too dangerous for you to share a bed with your partner, hug your children or eat with your family. Meanwhile the rest of the population were being told it was safe enough to go back down the pub. Now they are saying shielding is over next week so off you go, back to work.

And you are expected to get your head round this incredibly rapid change in policy at the end of 4 months of going nowhere and seeing no-one. You haven't had the chance to see, day to day, how things have changed in your neighbourhood, what the arrangements are in the shops near you, on public transport or at your workplace, how good or bad those arrangements are or how many people are complying.

Most of us have had the opportunity to slowly adapt to changing conditions and adjust our behaviour from day to day, depending on what we perceive the risk to be in the places we go. People who have been shielding are being thrown straight into this completely unprepared, having not been out since the middle of March and having had it drummed into them that they are Extremely Clinically Vulnerable. That must be incredibly frightening.

But people have become utterly, irrationally fixated on cloth face coverings as if they are the One True Thing that is going to solve this and keep us all safe. They're not. Face coverings can help reduce the risk of transmission in indoor situations where people are unable to stay 2 metres apart. They're a helpful extra tool, that's all.

Business owners don't have to wear one
Employees don't have to wear one
Contract workers don't have to wear one
The police don't have to wear one
H&S inspectors don't have to wear one
Council officers don't have to wear one
There's a huge long list of places nobody has to wear one
Lots of people are wearing things that are simply not effective
Lots are not following good mask hygiene
Lots of people are forgetting or not bothering to socially distance
There may be people in the shop who pick their nose and don't wash their hands
There may be people there who have shagged 5 different people at 5 different parties in the past week
There may be people there who have just flown back from a hotspot
There may be people there who have symptoms and have not requested a test
There may be people there who have been told to isolate by test and trace but have gone out anyway

If you are just starting to venture out after 4 months shielding then this is the situation you will have to deal with.

It would be great if we could say shielded people could now go out and it would be completely safe. But it's not completely safe for any of us and I don't know many people who are going out without feeling at all nervous or stressed.

It's not fair and it's not rational to place all this on the few people who are unable to wear a mask but who still need to go to the shop or use public transport.

March and having had it drummed into them that they are Extremely Clinically Vulnerable. That must be incredibly frightening.

In fairness, it isn't frightening at all. Shielding people have not lost the ability to actually ask people what's going on "out there" if they have not actually been out. It's broadcast on the TV enough to show you and it's easily found online.

A fair amount won't have been existing in one room in their house away from everyone else that lives there (despite what MN says). If you try and follow the shielding to the letter, you'll struggle in a normal family home.

There may be people there who have been told to isolate by test and trace but have gone out anyway

DGS (a baby) tested positive. Test and trace told DS 2 days later that if none of his family had any symptoms, including DGS, they could go out. They did not need to self isolate for 2 weeks.

How can anybody tell if a baby has lost their sense of smell and is feeling a bit fatigued? We think 2 year old DGD caught the virus initially, because she had hives that came and went; hence DS testing the whole family - and she passed it to her brother, but by the time of the test 4 days later, she tested negative.

However, the NHS does not have hives, skin rashes, etc as one of the major symptoms, DS only suspected it was corona virus, because he read studies from around the world - and the Covid Zoe app puts it as a significant symptom.

So small children can be infectious, and there is no requirement for them to wear a mask anyway!

@LangClegsInSpace

It would suit this government very well if this turned into shielding group vs. unable to wear a mask group, and if everyone squabbled amongst themselves instead of holding the government to account for their extremely poor handling of this pandemic, including their frankly horrific 'shielding' policy.

It's really important that we ALL resist this type of divide-and-conquer rhetoric.

I understand the fear of people who have been shielding. Less than three weeks ago the government was still telling you it was too dangerous for you to share a bed with your partner, hug your children or eat with your family. Meanwhile the rest of the population were being told it was safe enough to go back down the pub. Now they are saying shielding is over next week so off you go, back to work.

And you are expected to get your head round this incredibly rapid change in policy at the end of 4 months of going nowhere and seeing no-one. You haven't had the chance to see, day to day, how things have changed in your neighbourhood, what the arrangements are in the shops near you, on public transport or at your workplace, how good or bad those arrangements are or how many people are complying.

Most of us have had the opportunity to slowly adapt to changing conditions and adjust our behaviour from day to day, depending on what we perceive the risk to be in the places we go. People who have been shielding are being thrown straight into this completely unprepared, having not been out since the middle of March and having had it drummed into them that they are Extremely Clinically Vulnerable. That must be incredibly frightening.

But people have become utterly, irrationally fixated on cloth face coverings as if they are the One True Thing that is going to solve this and keep us all safe. They're not. Face coverings can help reduce the risk of transmission in indoor situations where people are unable to stay 2 metres apart. They're a helpful extra tool, that's all.

Business owners don't have to wear one
Employees don't have to wear one
Contract workers don't have to wear one
The police don't have to wear one
H&S inspectors don't have to wear one
Council officers don't have to wear one
There's a huge long list of places nobody has to wear one
Lots of people are wearing things that are simply not effective
Lots are not following good mask hygiene
Lots of people are forgetting or not bothering to socially distance
There may be people in the shop who pick their nose and don't wash their hands
There may be people there who have shagged 5 different people at 5 different parties in the past week
There may be people there who have just flown back from a hotspot
There may be people there who have symptoms and have not requested a test
There may be people there who have been told to isolate by test and trace but have gone out anyway

If you are just starting to venture out after 4 months shielding then this is the situation you will have to deal with.

It would be great if we could say shielded people could now go out and it would be completely safe. But it's not completely safe for any of us and I don't know many people who are going out without feeling at all nervous or stressed.

It's not fair and it's not rational to place all this on the few people who are unable to wear a mask but who still need to go to the shop or use public transport.

Thank you for expressing understanding.

I think the science around face masks is quite clear and that they reduce droplet spread from 20 feet (with a sneeze) 6feet in normal speech right down to a few inches when wearing a mask. So, that has a huge impact on safety.

Yes, they are part of a raft of measures and social distancing is still very important but masks play an important part in minimising infection risk from people well over two metres away.

Of course people are exempt for certain reasons but then I would ask that they please respect that many of us might need to take more precautions with people who aren't wearing masks - so more than two metre social distancing, not being face to face. I saw someone complain that a person turned away from them when they saw they had no mask on and they were offended by that. So, yes, if you can't wear a mask I hope you aren't challenged or abused for that at the same time I ask that you respect my needs and if I step back from you, or turn away from you or move away if you sit next to me anywhere then that's because I have additional requirements that deserve to be accommodated just as much as your needs.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras I wouldn’t have a problem if you turned away from me.

So, yes, if you can't wear a mask I hope you aren't challenged or abused for that at the same time I ask that you respect my needs and if I step back from you, or turn away from you or move away if you sit next to me anywhere then that's because I have additional requirements that deserve to be accommodated just as much as your needs.

Did you do any of this before masks became mandatory?

@PhilCornwall1

So, yes, if you can't wear a mask I hope you aren't challenged or abused for that at the same time I ask that you respect my needs and if I step back from you, or turn away from you or move away if you sit next to me anywhere then that's because I have additional requirements that deserve to be accommodated just as much as your needs.

Did you do any of this before masks became mandatory?

Do any of what? I haven't been out in public since early March apart from a couple of hospital appointments and they kept me isolated, so I've had no opportunity or reason to do it.

I will be doing it when I go.backnto.work next week.

Those saying shops and supermarkets have to let people in as otherwise they are discriminating aren't quite correct.
DD legislation says that they have a duty to make reasonable adjustments to allow you access to their service (not necessarily their premises) if you are disabled, - so if they offer online shopping or for smaller shops telephone orders & delivery or pickup from outside they could be considered to have provided the service in an alternative way and so could refuse entry without a mask without falling foul of the law.

I think a lot of people not in masks would be happy for others to keep their distance. There was someone yesterday who expected people without masks to keep well away from others and that was unreasonable. The person wanting the greater than 2m distance or not to be walked past in shops is the one who has to move although it seemed the complainer was happy to come up close to tell someone off.

The person wanting the greater than 2m distance or not to be walked past in shops is the one who has to move although it seemed the complainer was happy to come up close to tell someone off.

How so? So if I'm there first, selecting something off of a shelf, a someone walks right up next to are you saying that I should have to move away? Or, if I'm on a bus sitting in a seat for disabled people and someone not wearing a mask comes and sits next to me it's up to me to have to get up and possibly stand if no other seats are available?

And this is where I'm getting annoyed. Respect for disability/needs should go both ways. People who can't wear masks want respect and so people who are extremely vulnerable should also.be respected.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

The person wanting the greater than 2m distance or not to be walked past in shops is the one who has to move although it seemed the complainer was happy to come up close to tell someone off.

How so? So if I'm there first, selecting something off of a shelf, a someone walks right up next to are you saying that I should have to move away? Or, if I'm on a bus sitting in a seat for disabled people and someone not wearing a mask comes and sits next to me it's up to me to have to get up and possibly stand if no other seats are available?

And this is where I'm getting annoyed. Respect for disability/needs should go both ways. People who can't wear masks want respect and so people who are extremely vulnerable should also.be respected.

What if that other person can’t stand and move elsewhere though @Hearhoovesthinkzebras.

There has to be give and take - if someone comes too close to you and they don’t have a mask on, you should ask them to step back.

But I don’t see how that would work on public transport. Since both disabled people are equally entitled to Use the disabled seats. Perhaps you could turn so that you are not facing them, and ask them to do the same? (Assuming you and they are physically able to do so)

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras I don’t wear a mask, I honour the guidelines that have been set out from the start such as the 2m etc. I wait for people to move before getting what I require. I haven’t been treated with the same courtesy, multiple people wearing masks have got in my way instead of waiting.

I hope you have the same attitude with mask wearers as with government guidelines they state the mask “may” help not “will” help, they also say it shouldn’t replace social distancing. So really if someone had a mask or not, they shouldn’t be coming within 2m, those wearing masks are putting themselves at more contamination with poor handling of the masks and then touching surfaces that everyone touches.

What if that other person can’t stand and move elsewhere though

I have this a lot when into.out for a walk though - people just plough on even though there's nowhere for me to move to. I had it the other day in a country park. Path a good eight feet wide. Two women walking towards me side by side and just kept coming. On my side of the path was a ditch so I couldn't move over but they could easily have walked one behind the other and allowed a six foot distance between us. As it was they took up the whole path with just enough room.for me too and one of them brushed against me as she passed, having tutted because I turned away from them

This isn't going to be easy to navigate but people who dont wear masks just need to keep in mind that, no matter they have a good read not to wear a mask, they are still more of a risk than someone wearing a mask and just be mindful that others might need more precautions when around them.

[quote BF888]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras I don’t wear a mask, I honour the guidelines that have been set out from the start such as the 2m etc. I wait for people to move before getting what I require. I haven’t been treated with the same courtesy, multiple people wearing masks have got in my way instead of waiting.

I hope you have the same attitude with mask wearers as with government guidelines they state the mask “may” help not “will” help, they also say it shouldn’t replace social distancing. So really if someone had a mask or not, they shouldn’t be coming within 2m, those wearing masks are putting themselves at more contamination with poor handling of the masks and then touching surfaces that everyone touches.[/quote]
Well, I'm speaking for myself. I'll be maintaining at least two metres distance and even more if the person isn't wearing a mask. I won't be walking up to anyone, masked or otherwise and I've had training in donning and doffing PPE during various jobs when I was nursing. I maintain "bare below the elbows" all of the time now so that I can properly wash my hands without having jewellery in the way. All I ask is that people respect my need for distance as I'll respect their need to not wear a mask.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras That’s great that you’re treating people more or less the same, your initial comments didn’t show this and I think it’s important that people without masks aren’t treated like some kind of leper, especially as some people wearing masks aren’t handling them accordingly anyway.

I haven’t been out for a walk On a path anywhere since lockdown.

I’ve been to the supermarket and the fields at the back of my house (direct access from my back garden) and only do that when they are empty (early in the morning so I can let the dog have a run).

If I was to see anyone coming, I would immediately turn and face away from them as soon as they got near me (hasn’t happened)

I’ve isolated as much as I can in my home and restricted seeing my children since March.

I resent your inference that I’m deliberately putting you at risk by not wearing a mask. I can’t wear one. If I could, I would.

To be clear, hasn’t happened in the fields.

In the supermarket, I’ve only been a handful of times and it was quiet - no one has got closer to me than I was Happy with But if they did I’d turn away from them, even if they were wearing a mask.

@Mydogisthebestest I hope you’re isolation has been ok- it sounds like you‘be taken approach responsibly.

My point maybe somewhat controversial. But With some of the things I’ve read and seen people do with masks, and the state of some of the gloves people have worn in supermarkets I’ve seen. Even though I’m not wearing a mask i feel that the hygiene and handling of masks/gloves of what others are wearing is putting us all much more at risk than those of us not wearing the mask.

"How so? So if I'm there first, selecting something off of a shelf, a someone walks right up next to are you saying that I should have to move away?"

It is sensible for everyone to keep their distance mask or no mask.

"they are still more of a risk than someone wearing a mask"

The person with autism who barely goes out or the person with learning disabilities who has not been out of their sheltered accommodation for months is not more of a risk than the mask wearing person who has been to parties every weekend and has not washed their hands all day.

Even though I’m not wearing a mask i feel that the hygiene and handling of masks/gloves of what others are wearing is putting us all much more at risk than those of us not wearing the mask.

I think people are definitely complacent.

www.laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

This was linked on another thread. In case anyone here finds it useful (I have)

@Spikeyball

"How so? So if I'm there first, selecting something off of a shelf, a someone walks right up next to are you saying that I should have to move away?"

It is sensible for everyone to keep their distance mask or no mask.

"they are still more of a risk than someone wearing a mask"

The person with autism who barely goes out or the person with learning disabilities who has not been out of their sheltered accommodation for months is not more of a risk than the mask wearing person who has been to parties every weekend and has not washed their hands all day.

Also this.

Given that I have hardly been out, my hand hygiene is good and I’m socially distancing how can you say I’m a higher risk than some one who has been partying central, never washes their hands and has hugged half the neighbours?

[quote BF888]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras That’s great that you’re treating people more or less the same, your initial comments didn’t show this and I think it’s important that people without masks aren’t treated like some kind of leper, especially as some people wearing masks aren’t handling them accordingly anyway.[/quote]
And it's also important that people not wearing masks recognise that they pose an additional risk to others and respect that some people will have reasons just as vid as their own for distancing themselves.

I have seen complaints already that someone turned their back on a non mask wearing person - well, yes, that might happen to create a barrier between your exhaled droplets and the other person's face. If you can't wear a barrier then the other person needs to create one.

Risk is a holistic thing @Hearhoovesthinkzebras. My risk to you or yours to me is much more complex than just the wearing of a mask. That’s a very simplistic approach to risk you’re taking.