To think unless you are actually medically exempt you can't get out of wearing a mask?

[Simsie]

People on social media are telling others to download a basic picture of text saying "I am exempt from wearing a mask" to present at supermarkets if they don't want to wear a mask.

Not medically exempt, no hidden disabilities, just for those don't want to wear one.

Surely that crap isn't going to work?

Hear And it will be no where as many as you think it is. Compliance is really high and you really aren’t helping yourself by listening to people who are making it sound much worse than it is.

And I am unclear from your earlier posts, are you going to be wearing a mask?

Self-exemption is the way to go.

The people who will use self-exemption are those who deserve it and those who are rebellious because they want the attention, who want to be interrogated about their lack of mask. The former should be left alone and the latter are exactly the kind of adult who most want to fit in.

Ignore them and they'll order masks from the first retailer that does next-day delivery.

@sleepyblueocean

We should start going into people's houses and checking that everyone in there lives in that household/ support bubble or if they don't they are always more than 2m apart. Go into people's gardens and check that there are no more than 6 people and measure to check they remain 2m apart and that no one is hugging/shagging someone they shouldn't. And any of the other covid regulations applied to the public.

Well, they are other toothless rules aren't they? Same as the nod to test and trace that pubs and restaurants are doing - taking contact details of customers in case of an outbreak but no one is checking, via ID, that the details given are correct - so what's the point? People.now need to.quarantine on return from Spain - will anyone be enforcing it or checking that they are complying? No. So.whats the point?It's pointless having these rules and laws and then essentially saying we'll no one is going to make you do it but we'd really like you to do it.

@Nicknacky

Hear And it will be no where as many as you think it is. Compliance is really high and you really aren’t helping yourself by listening to people who are making it sound much worse than it is.

And I am unclear from your earlier posts, are you going to be wearing a mask?

Of course I'm going to be wearing a mask. I'm.breathless all of the time and wearing one does feel horrible but I've checked my oxygen saturations with and without it on and they are exactly the same at 90%. I'm having respiratory physio to help me be more comfortable with the sensation of air hunger so it's just something I need to learn to ignore.

"Well, they are other toothless rules aren't they?"

So why your obsession with mask non wearers. Easy target perhaps?

We could enforce the others with random police raids on everyones house or require everyone to keep video recordings of their whole house and garden which could be watched by someone in authority to make sure of no unlawful goings on.

I suppose it depends on whether you're a positive person who believes that most of your fellow humans will do the right thing and not lie or wriggle around loopholes in the rules.

Or whether you're a miserable sod who likes to think the worst of people and believes that everyone is out to get you.

Why are you not asking that people be monitored to see how often they are washing their hands?

Or checking how they cough and bin?

@SockYarn

I suppose it depends on whether you're a positive person who believes that most of your fellow humans will do the right thing and not lie or wriggle around loopholes in the rules.

Or whether you're a miserable sod who likes to think the worst of people and believes that everyone is out to get you.

Looking around it's really not difficult to see that many people now aren't "doing the right thing". That's plain for all to see.

If that were the case most people would be social distancing, sticking to the rules about mixing households, number of individuals allowed to meet and where, wearing masks, co operating with test and trace, social distancing in pubs and restaurants, not going to crowded beaches and so on.

I'm not believing that people are doing the right thing because many people aren't doing the right thing.

Hear But the majority of people are still doing the right things! You are just focusing on the tiny minority that aren’t.

I was in a restaurant last night and there was no issues with social distancing. I’ve been to beaches and play parks.

The real word isn’t as chaotic as you think it is.

If you are going to make mask wearing compulsory, with legal exemptions, then you have to provide a system for proving an individual is entitled to that exemption. That's just common sense. How can you have a law that includes exemptions but basically allows self certification for those exemptions? Come on, it's nonsense.

Whilst I agree in principle, I don't see how it's possible. Take PTSD as an example, triggers will vary dramatically. Through support groups I know women who have had similar experiences to mine, some are fine with masks others are not. Some like me have been formally diagnosed and treated on the NHS, others including ones with worse symptoms than mine have not. A blanket exemption for PTSD from the GP thus would be pointless as some would get exemptions they don't need and others wouldn't get the exemptions they do need because they haven't sought medical help for whatever reason. I'd argue that socio-economic factors are also at play, poor women are less likely to seek diagnoses especially if they have children so would be more impacted (in my experience working with vulnerable women) plus there is the practical side. I don't need to work (no public transport) and I don't need to shop (dh can do it) but a single mother with the same triggers as me would have more issues, even more so they hadn't sought help due to fear of social services.

I don’t know anyone who isn’t doing the right thing.

Also, you are conflating guidance and actual law @Hearhoovesthinkzebras. There’s no way guidance carries the same weight as law.

Looking around

You're not "looking around". As you are at pains to tell us repeatedly, you have not left the house except for medical appointments.

So you have no idea what's actually going on. You are basing your "opinions" on hearsay, TV coverage and forums.

But there's no point saying that round my way nearly everyone is socially distancing, wearing masks, using hand sanitising stations in the supermarket, following the one way system. Giving the correct details in pubs, not having house parties. Because in Hooves-Land it's all different. Nobody is sticking to the rules, everyone is on a mission to infect people with Covid.

@Cadent

Disabled people have been shat on repeatedly during the course of this pandemic and this is nothing new.

In what way? Genuine question. My mum is elderly and disabled (on PIP) and has shielded throughout. She is lucky to have children living nearby so has been taken care of throughout by family and not needed assistance from the council etc.

In many ways.

Yes, your mother is lucky to have children nearby who can care for her. Not everyone has. Here's some reading:

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/coronavirus-how-the-government-breached-disabled-peoples-rights-17-times-during-the-pandemic/

www.law.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-02-affront-dignity-inclusion-and-equality-coronavirus-and-impact-law-policy-practice

www.inclusionlondon.org.uk/disability-in-london/coronavirus-updates-and-information/campaigns-news-during-coronavirus-crisis/abandoned-forgotten-and-ignored-the-impact-of-covid-19-on-disabled-people/

Many people ARE doing the right thing - having seen for myself, rather than taking the word of others, I went through a busy London station and saw only two people without face coverings. I went to a supermarket and saw one.

It really isn’t as bad as you think. The majority of people are wearing face coverings and that is the main thing - like lockdown or vaccinations it only takes a significant percentage to do something for significant change to happen. No-one ever expected 100% compliance.

Not "many", @BrightYellowDaffodil. The overwhelming majority.

I was in a restaurant last night and there was no issues with social distancing. I’ve been to beaches and play parks.

Did you have to provide contact details for track and trace? If so, did they verify it? Only there have been posters bragging about how they, and everyone they know, give false details because they don't want to have to self isolate. So, what's the point then? The idea was to manage local outbreaks - if they haven't got details they can't can they?

Dinosauratemydaffodils

But that was my point - the exemptions basically mean that anyone can claim an exemption because there is no way to disprove them. So how is it a law? It's unenforceable.

Also, you are conflating guidance and actual law @Hearhoovesthinkzebras. There’s no way guidance carries the same weight as law.

It doesn't matter does it? Your argument is that people will voluntarily do the right thing. Whether it's guidance or law shouldn't matter if people are doing the right thing. We all know what that is - so everyone is doing it according to you?

following the one way system.

Shops here no longer have a one way system. Tesco have definitely abandoned it so they won't be doing it "round your way".

Hear The restaurant has details, yes. And no, how can they verify it unless they ask for proof of identify or address.

And one way systems have rightly been abandoned, they caused more problems than they solved.

Masks will get worn.

Rough generalisation:

1. There are people who follow the rules whether or not anyone else will find out, and
2. there are people who follow rules if someone is looking, but will break them if they won't get caught and,
3. there are people who are willing to be seen breaking rules.

If you go to a shop without wearing a mask, you cannot possibly kid yourself that no-one will see you. People will follow this rule, just like they follow the rule that you have to wear clothes to Tesco.

Not all shops have abandoned one way systems. Our local Asda still has one - at least it did when I was in last week. Smaller shops have systems still in place, like the Co-Op where the aisles are narrow. Aldi never did have a one way system but their aisles are about 15 feet wide - they're massive.

Anyway that's by the by - the point is that whatever the rules/laws are, the overwhelming majority of people who I see on an everyday basis are doing their absolute best to stick to them.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Also, you are conflating guidance and actual law @Hearhoovesthinkzebras. There’s no way guidance carries the same weight as law.

It doesn't matter does it? Your argument is that people will voluntarily do the right thing. Whether it's guidance or law shouldn't matter if people are doing the right thing. We all know what that is - so everyone is doing it according to you?

That is not my argument. You are incorrect. Perhaps you have confused me with someone else?

I'm far more worried about how socially awkward it will feel to be one of those people who can't wear masks.

@Nicknacky

Hear The restaurant has details, yes. And no, how can they verify it unless they ask for proof of identify or address.

And one way systems have rightly been abandoned, they caused more problems than they solved.

So why aren't restaurants etc asking for ID to prove contact details? What is the point otherwise? People are openly saying on MN that they don't want to have to self isolate if contacted by track and trace and so they are just giving false details (rather than not going to places that require T and T). So, it's just an illusion isn't it? Gov allow pubs and restaurants to open even though they are the highest risk businesses, on the basis that some of the risk is mitigated by quickly identifying people that may have been exposed to an outbreak, isolating them and therefore containing spread. (A pub has closed this weekend following an outbreak of, so far, 16 cases. They are trying to track all the customers over nearly a two week period and get them to isolate). What's the point if a lot of the info is false?

hear The restaurant has no power to ask for ID so that is something you will need to approach your MP about.

Again, the vast, vast majority of people are honest and will provide their details.

God, you are a glass half full person, aren’t you?!

Have a read of this thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3979406-To-report-someone-returning-from-Spain?msgid=98658376#98658376

And then come back to tell me that the vast majority of people can be trusted to "do the right thing"