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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel confused and old about transgender issues.

539 replies

confusedandold · 24/07/2020 08:29

I was born in 1976 so 43 years old. During school, I don't recall any children in my school having issues with their gender. There may have been some but none that I was away of. I had no experience of transgender people apart from a vague memory of seeing a man in women clothing walking up the road and being fascinated by it.

Transgender issues have never been at the forefront of my mind. I feel that I'm very accepting of other people's life choices and that people have a right to be happy in their lives whatever that means for them.

Lately, I feel completely confused by transgender issues. It has never been something that I'd given much thought to but I get completely an utterly confused by the terminology. Non-binary, cisgender etc this is all wording that I had never encountered before. Everyone seems to be talking about trans right and gender issues and I don't understand where this has suddenly come from. Is it that more people have issues around their gender? Is it fashionable to be gender-neutral? Is it just that people now feel more comfortable in expressing how they feel inside? Is there greater acceptance? I'm returning to the UK after 10 years abroad and this is a topic that was never really discussed when I left.

I guess I'm asking because I don't want to inadvertently offend anyone by using incorrect terminology. As shocking as this may sound but when I was at school mixed-race people were referred to as 'half-caste', even mixed-race people in my school referred to themselves in this way, now this is a huge no-no. Times change, language changes and it is so easy to offend while having no intention whatsoever of doing so.

OP posts:
midgebabe · 24/07/2020 19:52

Oh good grief, why is it always about the men?

Firstly there is a fallacy there, we currently have sex separated spaces that are socially regulated. We know that women are more likely to be assaulted by strangers in mixed sex spaces. Therefore we know that if we make all spaces mixed sex, more women will be assaulted. It's the lives that are being saved by the current way of living that are being protected, Not the ones who are assaulted.

Secondly What do women who have been assaulted feel? How do they react when placed in a vulnerable position with a man? Did you know rape victims are more likely to have PTSD than returning soldiers? Do you think it's fair that these women should be forced out of society to appease the smaller number of male people who identify as female?

midgebabe · 24/07/2020 19:53

A whole pair of shoes! I have a well developed left leg as we only had one show between us all,

Pertella · 24/07/2020 19:55

Well we appear to be going round the same old circles. People who claim TWAW unable and/or unwilling to answer questions which show up the glaring contradictions and circular logic that their position holds.

AuntyPasta · 24/07/2020 19:58

When toilets and changing rooms are being made unisex, so women are sharing facilities with ‘cis’ men, how far fetched is it to worry about women being assaulted in them?

ListeningQuietly · 24/07/2020 19:58

These threads are always circular
and OP has sensibly retreated to lurking
BUT
if @midgebabe realises that she is whoever she wants to be and bollocks to the haters
no boxes, no labels, no categories
and feels happier shouting from the rooftops
then every keystroke has been worth it Smile

HandsOffMyRights · 24/07/2020 19:59

We as ciswomen need to show transwomen love and compassion. It’s really not hard to do either.

Nah, I don't prioritise the penis, ta.

Forcing the prefix 'cis' upon women is a hostile takeover of language that amounts to the denial of the existence of natal females.

Why don't you tell men to be kind? Sorry, cis men, in your language which include ALL male borns.

ThatsHowWeRowl · 24/07/2020 20:02

To be honest, if the only thing young women are concerned with is their own "identity" and enforcing the use of particular pronouns, that means previous generations of feminists have done an amazing job.

This!

OneEpisode · 24/07/2020 20:02

The insult “Boomer Karens” is new to me. Baby Boomers were born 1946 to 1964. The Karen stereotype is supposed to be Gen X so 1965-1980.

ThatsHowWeRowl · 24/07/2020 20:02

These threads are always gold for showing up the ridiculous nature of TRAs.

HandsOffMyRights · 24/07/2020 20:02

@Pertella

Well we appear to be going round the same old circles. People who claim TWAW unable and/or unwilling to answer questions which show up the glaring contradictions and circular logic that their position holds.
Yup.

Somebody will have a mantrum and this thread will be, to quote our young TRAs, "cancelled".

HandsOffMyRights · 24/07/2020 20:05

@OneEpisode

The insult “Boomer Karens” is new to me. Baby Boomers were born 1946 to 1964. The Karen stereotype is supposed to be Gen X so 1965-1980.
It does not matter. Do you have a vagina? Are you over 30?

Congrats, you are Karen the Boomer from Accounts

ThatsHowWeRowl · 24/07/2020 20:05

Well I believe transwomen are women so that will answer all of your leading questions.

On what objective basis are transwomen women?

Also, from what you have said Greyt about how not all men are perverts and not all transwomen are perverts, are you saying that you would just advocate for totally mixed sex spaces everywhere then? Prisons, refuges, changing rooms - any man can have access? I'm confused!

OneEpisode · 24/07/2020 20:08

Karen has been trending on Twitter today.
She has been very bad but it is not completely clear in what way.

It is about the same number of tweets complaining that Karen, being responsible for customer safety, is requesting mask wearing, and of tweets about a different imaginary lot of women “named” Karen, suspected of wanting to appear in public without a mask.

This just seems to be “‘my mum is wrong about EVERYTHING!”

Bluemoooon · 24/07/2020 20:08

I haven't read all 8 pages.
Just wanted to say that your DS might be using shared-sex toilets so presumably tampons etc visible. And there might be transgender classmates as it seems to be rife in young teen age group (instead of Goths teens believe they are trans nowadays). So it would be useful for him to be up to speed on this. I would think the school could direct him to some of the information used nowadays in schools.

OneEpisode · 24/07/2020 20:11

Does Mumsnet publish their demographics? I know loads of millennial parents. Born 1981-96 so in their peak breeding years now...

GreytExpectations · 24/07/2020 20:16

@midgebabe

But grey, in what way are transwomen women, and where does that leave me? What am I ? I do not gender identify as woman though my sex is female. Whose team should I play in please? Which toilets should I use? How am I given equal rights in your gender based society?
That's not up to me to decide. Those questions you should ask yourself and do what you feel is best for you.
GreytExpectations · 24/07/2020 20:18

Yeah, when you're telling women to choke on dicks and threatening to curbstomp them you mean it kindly

CosSam1 never said any of that. Please provide the full quote that you she said that in.

GreytExpectations · 24/07/2020 20:22

@ThatsHowWeRowl

Well I believe transwomen are women so that will answer all of your leading questions.

On what objective basis are transwomen women?

Also, from what you have said Greyt about how not all men are perverts and not all transwomen are perverts, are you saying that you would just advocate for totally mixed sex spaces everywhere then? Prisons, refuges, changing rooms - any man can have access? I'm confused!

If you are confused than you should probably do a bit of research. You aren't interested in my opinions, you are only interested in picking holes and then finding ways to call me out. It's always how these threads on Mumsnet go
GetRid · 24/07/2020 20:22

I'm also in my 40s and never knowingly met anyone trans or non binary etc until this year, when I started working with someone who wants to be referred to as 'they'. They are lovely and I really try to remember to do use their preferred terminology, although it's difficult. But to me, there's definitely something a bit odd about it all (not that I'd ever say that to them).

Someone I know who's a girls school headteacher says in her experience, 20-30yrs ago there was a type of girl who was anorexic or had eating disorders. Nowadays that same type is trans or non binary etc.

That assessment has a ring of truth to it tbh

ListeningQuietly · 24/07/2020 20:23

@GreytExpectations
What is a man?
What is a boy?
What is the entry criteria for Eton ?

midgebabe · 24/07/2020 20:25

grey

What's best for me is if gender is deprecated so that people can live how they like with confidence and no fear or discrimination. without needing to physically change themselves and without needing to deny their physical reality. To be whole in themselves

You are taking that option away from me

RufustheRowlingReindeer · 24/07/2020 20:26

@GreytExpectations

Yeah, when you're telling women to choke on dicks and threatening to curbstomp them you mean it kindly

CosSam1 never said any of that. Please provide the full quote that you she said that in.

The poster was referring to cosams ‘kinder generation’
ThatsHowWeRowl · 24/07/2020 20:28

If you are confused than you should probably do a bit of research. You aren't interested in my opinions, you are only interested in picking holes and then finding ways to call me out. It's always how these threads on Mumsnet go

I am interested in your opinions. What do you want me to research, I asked about your opinion about mixed sex spaces? And also, on what basis you believe that transwomen are women? If you can't back up your opinions on this stuff then why would anyone give them any credence?

Pertella · 24/07/2020 20:31

@GreytExpectations

Yeah, when you're telling women to choke on dicks and threatening to curbstomp them you mean it kindly

CosSam1 never said any of that. Please provide the full quote that you she said that in.

I was answering the point made about their generation being kinder, but you knew that. I can however, provide you with the quote where they admit they were parodying people like you if you want? But whilst your here, any chance of answering the question I asked you (twice) earlier?
midgebabe · 24/07/2020 20:33

Grey has listened to one faction of trans people. Grey thinks grey understands it all. Grey does not want to acknowledge that things are a bit more complicated than grey thinks. Grey is happy for some people to be hurt provided grey doesn't have to educate themselves

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