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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to feel confused and old about transgender issues.

539 replies

confusedandold · 24/07/2020 08:29

I was born in 1976 so 43 years old. During school, I don't recall any children in my school having issues with their gender. There may have been some but none that I was away of. I had no experience of transgender people apart from a vague memory of seeing a man in women clothing walking up the road and being fascinated by it.

Transgender issues have never been at the forefront of my mind. I feel that I'm very accepting of other people's life choices and that people have a right to be happy in their lives whatever that means for them.

Lately, I feel completely confused by transgender issues. It has never been something that I'd given much thought to but I get completely an utterly confused by the terminology. Non-binary, cisgender etc this is all wording that I had never encountered before. Everyone seems to be talking about trans right and gender issues and I don't understand where this has suddenly come from. Is it that more people have issues around their gender? Is it fashionable to be gender-neutral? Is it just that people now feel more comfortable in expressing how they feel inside? Is there greater acceptance? I'm returning to the UK after 10 years abroad and this is a topic that was never really discussed when I left.

I guess I'm asking because I don't want to inadvertently offend anyone by using incorrect terminology. As shocking as this may sound but when I was at school mixed-race people were referred to as 'half-caste', even mixed-race people in my school referred to themselves in this way, now this is a huge no-no. Times change, language changes and it is so easy to offend while having no intention whatsoever of doing so.

OP posts:
LokiOdinson · 24/07/2020 16:26

There appears to be a disproportionate number of young people where a degree of gender dysphoria is comorbid with ASD.

Are you autistic?

GreytExpectations · 24/07/2020 16:26

Sorry my last post was meant for @PotholeParadise who hasn't nothing better to do than advance search people and twist their posts.

JanMeyer · 24/07/2020 16:28

Non-binary isn't a phase that kids go through @previous posters hmm I'm definitely not a kid (closer to 30 now!) and I'm non-binary. I've been this way since I was in school without having a name for it.

Been what way exactly? Liking stuff that's stereotypically male and female, and not conforming to gender norms? Because shock horror, that's pretty much everybody. Most people don't conform to exclusively male or female gender norms, it's called having a personality and liking whatever the fuck you want.
I find it fascinating (and depressing) that people think they need a special label because of it.
Or do you literally believe you're neither male nor female?

AuntyPasta · 24/07/2020 16:28

I had the joy of being part of a generation where anyone could wear trainers, cords, a t-shirt and no make up to a club and the only label you were given was indie.

LokiOdinson · 24/07/2020 16:30

Been what way exactly? Liking stuff that's stereotypically male and female, and not conforming to gender norms? Because shock horror, that's pretty much everybody. Most people don't conform to exclusively male or female gender norms, it's called having a personality and liking whatever the fuck you want.
I find it fascinating (and depressing) that people think they need a special label because of it.
Or do you literally believe you're neither male nor female?

^ this is precisely what I mean about people being rude and inflammatory lol

ListeningQuietly · 24/07/2020 16:33

Non Binary
just means not fitting into a 1950's misogynist view of what men and women are
or in another terminology normal Grin

Helmetbymidnight · 24/07/2020 16:35

so what is the binary that you are not?

PotholeParadise · 24/07/2020 16:35

@GreytExpectations

Sorry my last post was meant for *@PotholeParadise* who hasn't nothing better to do than advance search people and twist their posts.
Advance search? I'm sorry to break this to you, but I was on the thread. People have memories.

I told you that you were disablist at the time and how angry I was that you were coopting us to shut people's concerns about disabled people's rights at the time and you ignored it.

LokiOdinson · 24/07/2020 16:35

Non Binary
just means not fitting into a 1950's misogynist view of what men and women are
or in another terminology normal grin

Ah yes, before I was non-binary I was smoking a pipe while I pushed my overworked wife around, or I was stood in front of the sink/oven all day slaving over a hot meal for my husband. Being non-binary has saved me Hmm

I'm done here.

JanMeyer · 24/07/2020 16:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 24/07/2020 16:37

@LokiOdinson

There appears to be a disproportionate number of young people where a degree of gender dysphoria is comorbid with ASD.

Are you autistic?

What has that got to do with the scientific research I linked to?

Scientific research is finding a link between ASD and young people presenting with gender dysphoria.

PotholeParadise · 24/07/2020 16:37

@LokiOdinson

There appears to be a disproportionate number of young people where a degree of gender dysphoria is comorbid with ASD.

Are you autistic?

I am. And I am delighted that women like her are raising concerns for the welfare of autistic teenage girls.
ListeningQuietly · 24/07/2020 16:39

Loki
So what is Binary ?
And how do you not be it ?

LokiOdinson · 24/07/2020 16:39

I am. And I am delighted that women like her are raising concerns for the welfare of autistic teenage girls.

I'm also autistic, and I'm not delighted that women like her are using autism as a 'gotcha' card. I'm hoping this doesn't only stretch to when it's relevant to her arguments about trans people. (did want to clarify that one because otherwise I would have left it hanging).

Helmetbymidnight · 24/07/2020 16:41

the biggest part of yourself is being non- something else and you cant or wont explain what that something else is?!

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 24/07/2020 16:44

It’s not a gotcha card. It’s a genuine concern that the narrative is being hijacked by people who are push young people to make irreversible decisions like puberty blockers before offering the proper in depth support they need.
You said yourself that it took you years to find your identity. The affirmation only route can set a child on a pathway that they struggle to get off.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 24/07/2020 16:49

www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020

The Judicial Review case against GIDS.

JanMeyer · 24/07/2020 16:52

I'm also autistic, and I'm not delighted that women like her are using autism as a 'gotcha' card. I'm hoping this doesn't only stretch to when it's relevant to her arguments about trans people.

So you think trying to protect vulnerable autistic children is a "gotcha card?" Interesting perspective there.

PotholeParadise · 24/07/2020 16:53

@LokiOdinson

I am. And I am delighted that women like her are raising concerns for the welfare of autistic teenage girls.

I'm also autistic, and I'm not delighted that women like her are using autism as a 'gotcha' card. I'm hoping this doesn't only stretch to when it's relevant to her arguments about trans people. (did want to clarify that one because otherwise I would have left it hanging).

It's not a gotcha card. I have been working on a long post for ages about the generational shift in gender perspective between women younger than me and women older than me in autism support groups, and how the proportion seeking surgery that will make them infertile rises the younger they are. The reasons they describe for identifying as trans, especially non-binary, are things I 100% identify with. That was my puberty too. But no-one told me I was trans and so I worked through my body dysmorphia on my own. It sucked, but being rushed through surgery and losing the chance to choose for myself whether I wanted children would have been worse. I am genuinely concerned that is what is happening to young girls like me today.

You know what manipulating young women into sterilisation who tend to have a heritable genetic variation looks like to me? Eugenics.

It's not progressive and it is fantastic that NT people are caring about this.

YouJustDoYou · 24/07/2020 16:58

It’s not a gotcha card. It’s a genuine concern that the narrative is being hijacked by people who are push young people to make irreversible decisions like puberty blockers before offering the proper in depth support they need.
You said yourself that it took you years to find your identity. The affirmation only route can set a child on a pathway that they struggle to get off

This.

PotholeParadise · 24/07/2020 17:02

Do you know that the moment you wrote about being non-binary and nearly 30, Loki, I thought 'autistic'?

That's how many of us there are. And if all you want is to have that respected, I can do that. I can do any pronoun people want and use inclusive language with ease. I have been doing it flawlessly with s/he/they/ze/[name]self for years.

But I'm not going to go along with teenagers who feel just like me or my same-age autistic friends being sterilised before they have a chance to be sure that is what they want. I remember the uproar there was about the idea of women being offered a screening test for autism so they could terminate pregnancies and now I'm supposed to think the current ideology is progressive ?

Fuck that. I could have been talked into drastic surgery in my teens too. It wouldn't have been right. It would have been exploitation.

bishopgiggles · 24/07/2020 17:05

Loki, thank you for engaging as I must admit when it comes to non-binary I haven't got a handle on what that actually means - I do think you can be gender non-conforming and still reject the idea that there is necessarily a binary but I don't think that's what you're getting at? You haven't said what you think the 'binary' is - to you? I'm always keen to listen to how people want to talk about their gender identity as it seems something that is very complex and varies from person to person, yet is becoming a shorthand for concepts in law which people are going to interpret differently.

It would also be immensely helpful if you could use the quote or bold function as it's hard to distinguish what is your comments and what is you quoting someone else.

Greyt I was on another thread with you a while ago and suggested that something you said might be viewed as anti-trans and you just got offended and didn't address it at all, so I'm sensing that you don't like to be told if you say something offensive?

GreytExpectations · 24/07/2020 17:07

I told you that you were disablist at the time and how angry I was that you were coopting us to shut people's concerns about disabled people's rights at the time and you ignored it.

I ignored it because I wasn't being disablist and you were getting wound up. Not sure if you know this but you don't really get to control people and their opinions.

bishopgiggles · 24/07/2020 17:08

Telling disabled people they are not experiencing disablism is... hm, can't think of a word for it Hmm

GreytExpectations · 24/07/2020 17:09

Considering I'm one of the few people on Mumsnet that supports trans rights not sure how I could have been anti trans. But you could say that about anyone. Nobody like being shut down with the term "offensive" specially when, if anything, I'm one of the few people who advocate for Trans rights bishopgiggles