To feel awful that I shouted at DD?

[Daisydolittleboo]

Regular on adoption boards but also regular NC'r

DD(5 yo) has been home since the start of lockdown.

She is emotionally 18months- 2 years below her age

She is also very wilful. I have no idea if this an 'adoption thing' or an 'age thing'. If I ask her not to do something, she has to do it once more... Often while watching me.

We have a 19 year old cat who is scared of DD and DS, but the DC have, on the whole, been brilliant with her and left her alone.

Tonight DD has been in a tearful mood (another disrupted night last night)

She started stroking the cat who was visibly upset by it so I said, gently, leave the cat alone darling, look she's scared. At this point DD stroked her again.

I wasn't annoyed on behalf of the cat - I'm annoyed that she Never Bloody Listens.

I picked her up and moved her away from the cat at which point she started crying saying 'I didn't want you to do that'

I yelled 'well I didn't want you to touch the cat either but you did'

Then she started crying more and saying she wanted her birth father and birth mother (she's never done this before)

I calmed down, apologised for shouting and explained sometimes Mummy's get cross too. I said I still loved her but didn't like her when she didn't listen (I know, I know... I should have said I didn't like the behaviour)

I said I knew her missing her birth mother and father was difficult but me and DH loved her.

I feel awful. This wasn't just a raised voice, this was yelling.

Could just do with a bit of handholding.

I would put a thread on here about other issues but a recent post from a regular saying (and I'm paraphrasing) why do adoptive parents make all these promises to be really good, and then don't live up to that promise has put me off. In fact, I thought twice about this one too. But flame away if needs be!

My DD is adopted and does this. She has been home almost 4 years.
She too is emotionally behind and I think it helps to try and treat them as they mental age they are not the physical.
So when she was stroking the cat, remove the cat, not her. Explain (for the millienth time) that the cat gets cross when she strokes it, just like DD gets cross when she can't stroke her. Name her feelings for her. Name the other persons (or animals ) so she can relate to them.
I don't know if the behaviour is an adopted thing or a personality trait. I was told to treat every behaviour like it is a trauma/adoption thing and then you will be more cautious and therapeutic about it. It's really hard! Techniques I use on my birth son do not work on my daughter at all.

@Teacher12345

My DD is adopted and does this. She has been home almost 4 years. She too is emotionally behind and I think it helps to try and treat them as they mental age they are not the physical. So when she was stroking the cat, remove the cat, not her. Explain (for the millienth time) that the cat gets cross when she strokes it, just like DD gets cross when she can't stroke her. Name her feelings for her. Name the other persons (or animals ) so she can relate to them. I don't know if the behaviour is an adopted thing or a personality trait. I was told to treat every behaviour like it is a trauma/adoption thing and then you will be more cautious and therapeutic about it. It's really hard! Techniques I use on my birth son do not work on my daughter at all.

I try to treat her as her mental age too. In future I will move the cat not DD. That works for my DD too, naming her feelings.

Try not to be too hard on yourself OP. We all make these types of mistakes from time to time, honestly we do- but it sounds like as an adoptive parent you feel that you have to be somehow immune from being human. It's just not possible.

In my opinion your daughter will not remember this incident and I think you should try to allow yourself to move on from it.

The comment about her birth parents must be really tough for you to hear. If she is feeling like that though, maybe it is important that she feels able to verbalise that to you without fear of being corrected or of upsetting you. I'm not an expert but I can imagine that it must be painful for an adopted child to have feelings about their birth parents that they feel they can't be open about....

Conversely sometimes I think children can use this type of thing as a strategy when they are struggling. So in my DC case they used to tell me they missed their Daddy when things got tough, but this extended sometimes into a tool to try to deflect things like needing to go to bed, do homework etc. etc. This happened because they had noticed that if they told me they missed Daddy I would inevitably back down, give hugs, and treat them with kid gloves.

Once this started happening I didn't stop the hugs or kindness when they said they were missing Daddy, but I did then ask them to pick up where they left off as it had become a way to get around doing things they didn't want to do. I hope this makes some sense!

The comments always cut through me and made me feel heartbroken for them, but I found that facing up to the reality of it, and not being so frightened about hearing it made it a little easier to bear. I'm not suggesting I know how challenging it is to be an adoptive parent, and I hope my post doesn't sound patronising.

@Chaotic45

Try not to be too hard on yourself OP. We all make these types of mistakes from time to time, honestly we do- but it sounds like as an adoptive parent you feel that you have to be somehow immune from being human. It's just not possible.

In my opinion your daughter will not remember this incident and I think you should try to allow yourself to move on from it.

The comment about her birth parents must be really tough for you to hear. If she is feeling like that though, maybe it is important that she feels able to verbalise that to you without fear of being corrected or of upsetting you. I'm not an expert but I can imagine that it must be painful for an adopted child to have feelings about their birth parents that they feel they can't be open about....

Conversely sometimes I think children can use this type of thing as a strategy when they are struggling. So in my DC case they used to tell me they missed their Daddy when things got tough, but this extended sometimes into a tool to try to deflect things like needing to go to bed, do homework etc. etc. This happened because they had noticed that if they told me they missed Daddy I would inevitably back down, give hugs, and treat them with kid gloves.

Once this started happening I didn't stop the hugs or kindness when they said they were missing Daddy, but I did then ask them to pick up where they left off as it had become a way to get around doing things they didn't want to do. I hope this makes some sense!

The comments always cut through me and made me feel heartbroken for them, but I found that facing up to the reality of it, and not being so frightened about hearing it made it a little easier to bear. I'm not suggesting I know how challenging it is to be an adoptive parent, and I hope my post doesn't sound patronising.

No I didn't read it in a patronising way dont worry.

It was tough to hear her say. I do try to encourage DD to be open and honest about her feelings even if they upset me or are about me in a negative way.

I think that if the cat was getting scared, and dd is only 18 months developmentally, she probably isn't old enough to assign emotions to a cat. I think you should have removed the cat rather than tried to remove the child if she wouldn't keep her hands off and explain if she couldn't stop stroking her you'd have to move the cat so she could have a nice nap. Maybe it's a sensory thing and she enjoyed the feeling of the cats fur - what about getting a lifelike cat toy? I know mine at 18mo couldn't understand what the cat might be feeling and id frequently have to put the cat upstairs if things were getting a bit fraught. Although, if the cat has an escape route then if she was that uncomfortable surely she would get up and move away? I think going forward you need to pick your battles a little more carefully. Apologising to her is so important so well done for that.

@ShesMadeATwatOfMePam

I think that if the cat was getting scared, and dd is only 18 months developmentally, she probably isn't old enough to assign emotions to a cat. I think you should have removed the cat rather than tried to remove the child if she wouldn't keep her hands off and explain if she couldn't stop stroking her you'd have to move the cat so she could have a nice nap. Maybe it's a sensory thing and she enjoyed the feeling of the cats fur - what about getting a lifelike cat toy? I know mine at 18mo couldn't understand what the cat might be feeling and id frequently have to put the cat upstairs if things were getting a bit fraught. Although, if the cat has an escape route then if she was that uncomfortable surely she would get up and move away? I think going forward you need to pick your battles a little more carefully. Apologising to her is so important so well done for that.

Sorry for the confusion DD is 5 but I meant that she is 18 months- 2 years behind a 5 year old emotionally. In future I will remove the cat. It could be sensory I suppose. Might look for a toy like you say.

Had a chat with DD this morning and I apologised to her. I've learnt how better to deal with it next time.

@Daisydolittleboo

Had a chat with DD this morning and I apologised to her. I've learnt how better to deal with it next time.

Hopefully, you can see that your actions today and the emotional wrangle you've been in are what make you a good parent who makes mistakes. Try to not dwell on it any further - to the point that you don't need to respond to this. I shall bow out now...

Is there support from your la/council or adoption services for her? Obviously just now services will be minimal but in my area parenting classes such as triple p - you can do a version for special needs is available it really helped me with my son who has undiagnosed issues POSs adhd/asd it really made me look at what I was saying to him & his siblings and how I parented etc it was very helpful (was affronted initially as I thought having had 4 kids how could I be terrible at parenting) it just makes you look at things differently then added in stepping stones for my youngest. I work in a different la and they use Solihull and you can get free access to that but I’ve yet to look at it. Just for some ideas, as I said i found it helpful to step back and speak to people about the kids and how I can support my youngest. It’s all quite gentle and positive I never use time out or the naughty step as it doesn’t work for mine.
I’m sure your daughter will be fine, and you’ve said you know where you went wrong and reflecting on it helps and you can plan ahead for other similar situations. It does mean you’re constantly thinking ahead at least I am, thinking about what I might say etc youngest takes things very personally and gets extremely upset sometimes, but much less that before we did the programme.

Hope you have a lovely day with your daughter baking sounds lovely 😊

I know you went a bit far with the 'I don't like you' but I think you've overreacted a bit here. Everyone shouts at their children out of anger once or twice - 3 or 5, adopted or not. Cuddles and apologies and baking because you told her off for doing something wrong after she'd already been told not to do it? Sounds like she gets exactly what she wants.

My DD was exactly like this- the doing what I’d asked her not to again whilst watching me. It’s part of her attachment issue and putting her in time out will NOT help.

Have a look at UinMind- it’s the newer version of the parenting course for parents of children with attachment issues. Understanding why she does the things she does will really help.

You are NOT a bad parent; you’re a human being with your own feelings. I found that acting helped me when I was really frustrated- I used to pretend there was an audience there and getting into ‘good mum’ role helped me keep it together. Odd, but it works! Good luck.

@MummytoCSJH

I know you went a bit far with the 'I don't like you' but I think you've overreacted a bit here. Everyone shouts at their children out of anger once or twice - 3 or 5, adopted or not. Cuddles and apologies and baking because you told her off for doing something wrong after she'd already been told not to do it? Sounds like she gets exactly what she wants.

We was going to bake anyway today. The cuddles and the kiss goodnight was to reassure her that I love her.

@Kaykay066

Is there support from your la/council or adoption services for her? Obviously just now services will be minimal but in my area parenting classes such as triple p - you can do a version for special needs is available it really helped me with my son who has undiagnosed issues POSs adhd/asd it really made me look at what I was saying to him & his siblings and how I parented etc it was very helpful (was affronted initially as I thought having had 4 kids how could I be terrible at parenting) it just makes you look at things differently then added in stepping stones for my youngest. I work in a different la and they use Solihull and you can get free access to that but I’ve yet to look at it. Just for some ideas, as I said i found it helpful to step back and speak to people about the kids and how I can support my youngest. It’s all quite gentle and positive I never use time out or the naughty step as it doesn’t work for mine. I’m sure your daughter will be fine, and you’ve said you know where you went wrong and reflecting on it helps and you can plan ahead for other similar situations. It does mean you’re constantly thinking ahead at least I am, thinking about what I might say etc youngest takes things very personally and gets extremely upset sometimes, but much less that before we did the programme.

Hope you have a lovely day with your daughter baking sounds lovely 😊

We have support from adoption services for her. They are very helpful.

I try to be gentle and positive too.

I've learnt to handle it differently in the future.

@Imissmoominmama

My DD was exactly like this- the doing what I’d asked her not to again whilst watching me. It’s part of her attachment issue and putting her in time out will NOT help.

Have a look at UinMind- it’s the newer version of the parenting course for parents of children with attachment issues. Understanding why she does the things she does will really help.

You are NOT a bad parent; you’re a human being with your own feelings. I found that acting helped me when I was really frustrated- I used to pretend there was an audience there and getting into ‘good mum’ role helped me keep it together. Odd, but it works! Good luck.

The audience idea is good. Time out won't help with my DD either. I will have a look at UinMind.

@Gatehouse77

I know I made a mistake but I've learnt how best to deal with it next time.

Just wanted to say you seem like you’re trying really hard for your daughter. None of us are perfect but you have reflected on the situation and thought about how it could be improved. I agree with the other posters who told you to be gentle with yourself. It’s not easy being a parent

@user1471462428

Just wanted to say you seem like you’re trying really hard for your daughter. None of us are perfect but you have reflected on the situation and thought about how it could be improved. I agree with the other posters who told you to be gentle with yourself. It’s not easy being a parent

I love her for the world. DD seems okay today, happy, jumpy and hyper.

I just wanted to say that my mother told me several times as a child that “[she] would always love me but really didn’t like me right then”.

I had a fabulous relationship with her (ignoring some teenage Angst on my part!!) and think of her every day, even though she’s been dead many years. My siblings also were not traumatized by that phrase.

@whattimeisitrightnow

Apologies if you did do this but just didn’t mention it in the OP, but saying “I am going to pick you up now” or “If you don’t stop touching the cat, I will have to pick you up” is important. As you said, she began to cry and told you she didn’t want you to do that - it’s possible being touched without warning, even by a loving parent, could be a trigger for her given her past. I don’t think the yelling is that much of an issue - most parents yell from time to time - but as a PP said, you can never again tell her that you don’t like her. It doesn’t sound like you will, though.

I will never tell her that I don't like her again, at the time I meant her behaviour.

I usually warn DD before I touch her but in the moment I just forget, I know I should have said first.

OP please be kind to yourself- I say this as an adopter with a DD who was placed aged 5 but emotionally a toddler, at the time I had a 20 year old cat too! I used to second guess myself so much, worry about any and every thing being down to trauma and developmental delay (I can remember scrutinizing DDs face constantly looking for sign of FAE, even though there was no suggestion whatsoever that was on the cards), I felt I had to be perfect and therapeutic 24/7 to make up for their start in life, it's exhausting.

I have learned that it's okay to make mistakes, realise, and apologise, and important for DC to see you modelling that. It's okay not to be perfect. Its okay to acknowledge that your DC push your buttons like you wouldn't believe possible. If our children are anything, they're resilient, they've survived stuff you'd never wish on anyone, and come through a bit battered but they've survived. Your DD can cope with you occasionally shouting, or being ott, or getting things wrong. She will learn that you can have ups and downs and still love each other and be a family, she needs to experience that. It's really ok.

@nothingcomestonothing

OP please be kind to yourself- I say this as an adopter with a DD who was placed aged 5 but emotionally a toddler, at the time I had a 20 year old cat too! I used to second guess myself so much, worry about any and every thing being down to trauma and developmental delay (I can remember scrutinizing DDs face constantly looking for sign of FAE, even though there was no suggestion whatsoever that was on the cards), I felt I had to be perfect and therapeutic 24/7 to make up for their start in life, it's exhausting.

I have learned that it's okay to make mistakes, realise, and apologise, and important for DC to see you modelling that. It's okay not to be perfect. Its okay to acknowledge that your DC push your buttons like you wouldn't believe possible. If our children are anything, they're resilient, they've survived stuff you'd never wish on anyone, and come through a bit battered but they've survived. Your DD can cope with you occasionally shouting, or being ott, or getting things wrong. She will learn that you can have ups and downs and still love each other and be a family, she needs to experience that. It's really ok.

@nothingcomestonothing That's what I'm like too, always trying to be perfect and therapeutic. Yes they are very resilient, I would never ever wish what DD has been through on anyone, not even my worst enemy. We've had a lovely day today, she hasn't even mentioned last night once. I do feel really bad though for picking her up and moving her away from the cat without warning her that I was going to touch her, I always warn her first before touching her.

I do feel really bad though for picking her up and moving her away from the cat without warning her that I was going to touch her, I always warn her first before touching her.

She will have got over it way before you. Honestly. You are imperfect, it's okay, she doesn't need you to be perfect.

@nothingcomestonothing

I do feel really bad though for picking her up and moving her away from the cat without warning her that I was going to touch her, I always warn her first before touching her.

She will have got over it way before you. Honestly. You are imperfect, it's okay, she doesn't need you to be perfect.

@nothingcomestonothing

I thought she might be over it as she hasn't mentioned it today. I just don't like the fact that I probably scared her at the time.

I thought she might be over it as she hasn't mentioned it today. I just don't like the fact that I probably scared her at the time.

Of course you don't want to scare her. Please give yourself a break. You've said yourself she hasn't mentioned it - maybe because she's let it go, maybe it wasn't as big for her as it is for you, maybe she's saving it up to throw in your face when she's telling you what a terrible mother you are when she's a hormonal teenager

Did you post in aibu rather than adoption so that non adopters would pile on and tell you how awful you are? If so, the nest of vipers hasn't really obliged. Because we all mess up sometimes, we all think we're crappy parents sometimes, no one is going to judge you as hard as you're judging yourself.

Looking after children that age adopted or not can be really hard work so try not to be so hard on yourself OP. We have all maybe reacted to our kids in a way that we regret or don't think is nice, the benefit of hindsight eh!?

My mum has said to me "i'll always love you but I don't always like your behaviours" which imo seems a bit nicer that the "i dont always like you comment" maybe go back to your DD and explain thats what you meant and your sorry you said something different you were just a bit worried about the cat.

I was adopted when i was around 3 years old and I was a little shit terror my dad put me on the "naughty chair" which was essentially a time out and I just remember feeling so upset and left out i screamed my heart out and dribbled on the chair which upset him more. Tldr; time out isn't a good idea i think it just enhances the fear of abandonment.

I can't give much advice on her behaviour and parenting tips as I'm struggling myself with mine. Im sure you're doing a great job OP x