To feel awful that I shouted at DD?

[Daisydolittleboo]

Regular on adoption boards but also regular NC'r

DD(5 yo) has been home since the start of lockdown.

She is emotionally 18months- 2 years below her age

She is also very wilful. I have no idea if this an 'adoption thing' or an 'age thing'. If I ask her not to do something, she has to do it once more... Often while watching me.

We have a 19 year old cat who is scared of DD and DS, but the DC have, on the whole, been brilliant with her and left her alone.

Tonight DD has been in a tearful mood (another disrupted night last night)

She started stroking the cat who was visibly upset by it so I said, gently, leave the cat alone darling, look she's scared. At this point DD stroked her again.

I wasn't annoyed on behalf of the cat - I'm annoyed that she Never Bloody Listens.

I picked her up and moved her away from the cat at which point she started crying saying 'I didn't want you to do that'

I yelled 'well I didn't want you to touch the cat either but you did'

Then she started crying more and saying she wanted her birth father and birth mother (she's never done this before)

I calmed down, apologised for shouting and explained sometimes Mummy's get cross too. I said I still loved her but didn't like her when she didn't listen (I know, I know... I should have said I didn't like the behaviour)

I said I knew her missing her birth mother and father was difficult but me and DH loved her.

I feel awful. This wasn't just a raised voice, this was yelling.

Could just do with a bit of handholding.

I would put a thread on here about other issues but a recent post from a regular saying (and I'm paraphrasing) why do adoptive parents make all these promises to be really good, and then don't live up to that promise has put me off. In fact, I thought twice about this one too. But flame away if needs be!

I'm not an adoptive parent OP but I do have two adopted brothers so have an inkling of some of the challenges.

Frankly, I would just learn from this and move on. Yes, you said the wrong thing but I have accidentally said similar things and yelled at my own child in the heat of the moment too. We're only human and not saints.

(As for the keep on repeating things you have told her not to do, one of my (adopted) brothers did this. Mum used to turn her back so she couldn't see him repeat the behaviour. He soon stopped without the audience. I'm not sure if he just wasn't getting the reaction he wanted or if he read it as being her trusting him to behave and started living up to her expectations.)

Adoption is hard. Apologise, give her a big kiss and cuddle, and resolve to not make the same mistake tomorrow. x

Natural consequences definitely work better for my DD too.

When it was persistent, I used to follow with, "what could you have done to change it?" To instill an internal locus. Yours may be a bit young for that.

The other thing that really helped me was triage. Is she hungry, thirsty, tired etc.? And then, actually can she do what I'm asking? Maybe the cat is just too tempting.

I epically fail often though!

@MacavityTheDentistsCat

I'm not an adoptive parent OP but I do have two adopted brothers so have an inkling of some of the challenges.

Frankly, I would just learn from this and move on. Yes, you said the wrong thing but I have accidentally said similar things and yelled at my own child in the heat of the moment too. We're only human and not saints.

(As for the keep on repeating things you have told her not to do, one of my (adopted) brothers did this. Mum used to turn her back so she couldn't see him repeat the behaviour. He soon stopped without the audience. I'm not sure if he just wasn't getting the reaction he wanted or if he read it as being her trusting him to behave and started living up to her expectations.)

Adoption is hard. Apologise, give her a big kiss and cuddle, and resolve to not make the same mistake tomorrow. x

I will learn from it definitely. I've been up to see her and reassure her.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Natural consequences definitely work better for my DD too.

When it was persistent, I used to follow with, "what could you have done to change it?" To instill an internal locus. Yours may be a bit young for that.

The other thing that really helped me was triage. Is she hungry, thirsty, tired etc.? And then, actually can she do what I'm asking? Maybe the cat is just too tempting.

I epically fail often though!

I think DD might be a bit too young for that. She usually very good with the cat.

Apologies if you did do this but just didn’t mention it in the OP, but saying “I am going to pick you up now” or “If you don’t stop touching the cat, I will have to pick you up” is important. As you said, she began to cry and told you she didn’t want you to do that - it’s possible being touched without warning, even by a loving parent, could be a trigger for her given her past. I don’t think the yelling is that much of an issue - most parents yell from time to time - but as a PP said, you can never again tell her that you don’t like her. It doesn’t sound like you will, though.

How old was she when she came to you? Sometimes kids who have experienced trauma have learned that they cannot depend on grown ups to pay enough consistent attention to them to keep them safe. This is unbelievably stressful because to survive, little kids need adult attention. Consequently, they become very, very focused on finding ways to make adults keep them in mind. Deliberately disobeying you, and watching you to make sure you see her disobeying, is a brilliant way to keep you engaged.

I'm not surprised you lost your cool. Dealing with kids who have experienced early trauma can be very difficult. Dont be too hard on yourself. Do you have access to post adoption support? Access to training on attachment issues?

The worst thing you did was to say you didn't like her. It is too sophisticated a concept for someone of her age. I never said I didn't like my children. I may have thought it but I never, ever said it.
Make a promise to yourself and your daughter that you will never make her insecure by saying this kind of thing again. She needs to be completely confident that you love her if she is to overcome her traumatic childhood.
Bill Bryson tells a story about testing his mother to the limit as a small child and she laughed, kissed him and told him it was a good job she loved him so much. She sounds like a wonderful mother.

Glad you’ve gone up and cuddled her

When my boys are/were like this (they’re 5 & 3) instead of saying don’t (I read somewhere ages ago that children don’t hear the don’t they hear what comes afterwards) I either try and redirect so straight into “oh wow look at this insert super amazing thing like a butterfly or a jigsaw or a book I’ve found” or try and praise them into not doing it so along the lines of “you are stroking her so gently you’re so good with her, I’m really proud of you. How about we go and insert whatever you fancy”

We’re all just winging it, doesn’t matter how our babies get to us none of us know what the fuck we’re doing and we’re all just doing our best!

Actually I disagree @mrsmuddlepies my mother has always told me how loved I am but I also know that sometimes she doesn’t like me and that’s fine, sometimes I don’t like her, but my parents have always been my biggest supporters and I’m entirely secure in their love, I know them not liking me doesn’t mean they’ll stop loving me so I’m all good. Hope that makes sense.

Adoptive parents are no more perfect than the rest of us, op - and I say that with kindness. None of us behaves perfectly all the time. I have yelled. I have been brought to the brink of smacking. I have sworn. I have had to walk away to prevent myself doing something I will later regret. Do I feel bad and beat myself up? Of course I do. But what matters most is how you put it right.

You know what you did wrong and will undoubtedly spend time with your dd tomorrow making amends. Be kind to yourself - hearing dd say that about her birth parents will have been tough to hear for you.

I'm well aware of the challenges of raising adopted children - my nephews are adopted. You're doing your absolute best in often very trying circumstances. Give yourself a break. Tomorrow is another day.

OP, no one is a perfect parent. But I bet being an adoptive parent it feels like you have to be 110% perfect. Cut yourself some slack. Xx

Please stop banging on about the OP saying she didn’t like her daughter. We are all capable of saying things we don’t mean in anger, she obviously feels shit about it, and really doesn’t need a pile on of posters stating the same thing over and over.

We all screw it up at times and need to forgive ourselves for being human. Everything you’ve said sounds like someone who will do their best to not repeat it and actively look for alternative ways should it arise again.

Nothing wrong in apologising to our children and acknowledging the mistakes we make - after all, it’s what we teach them to do when they screw up!

It’s difficult right now because, understandably, emotions are heightened but try and step back and see the bigger picture of how you parent. It’s not lost on one screw up.

I am an adoptive mum. Give yourself a break. Not only is your relationship new, but lockdown has put added pressure on everyone, both adult and child. Tomorrow is a new day. Well done for going back and reconnecting. It's really important that reconnecting is done asap after a fallout because of the shame aspect.
For the not listening (and the challenge given by eye contact)...we "killed" our little one with kindness! Can you leave the cat alone please? Thank you for listening, I saw that you really heard what I said. Can you come.here and put your shoes on? Wow! I saw that you did as I asked the first time I asked, that's amazing! We did this for every little thing! It redirected her behaviour from the negative to the positive. Remember that negative attention is still attention, so try to make it as positive as possible. Start with the things you know she will achieve quickly.
The "I want my mum" is her verbalising her distress of the moment by saying something that was huge for her. Try not to react because she will learn quickly that this phrase is a trigger for you. I am not saying it is a trigger...just be careful.
Praise anything that she does well, ignore (within reason that which isn't so great)... Be kind to yourself. I bet you feel judged by everyone, watched by all and feel you have to prove that you are a good mum. This will pass, you are your worst critic! Good luck…sorry for the essay

DD's awake already and woke me up, she seems ok this morning, very jumpy and hyper.

@whattimeisitrightnow

Apologies if you did do this but just didn’t mention it in the OP, but saying “I am going to pick you up now” or “If you don’t stop touching the cat, I will have to pick you up” is important. As you said, she began to cry and told you she didn’t want you to do that - it’s possible being touched without warning, even by a loving parent, could be a trigger for her given her past. I don’t think the yelling is that much of an issue - most parents yell from time to time - but as a PP said, you can never again tell her that you don’t like her. It doesn’t sound like you will, though.

I do usually warn DD before I touch her but in the moment last night it just didn't cross my mind. I wont be telling her I don't like her again.

@DartmoorDoughnut

Glad you’ve gone up and cuddled her

When my boys are/were like this (they’re 5 & 3) instead of saying don’t (I read somewhere ages ago that children don’t hear the don’t they hear what comes afterwards) I either try and redirect so straight into “oh wow look at this insert super amazing thing like a butterfly or a jigsaw or a book I’ve found” or try and praise them into not doing it so along the lines of “you are stroking her so gently you’re so good with her, I’m really proud of you. How about we go and insert whatever you fancy”

We’re all just winging it, doesn’t matter how our babies get to us none of us know what the fuck we’re doing and we’re all just doing our best!

DD loves cuddles. That's a good way to get them to stop doing something, I might try that.

@Whatafustercluck

Adoptive parents are no more perfect than the rest of us, op - and I say that with kindness. None of us behaves perfectly all the time. I have yelled. I have been brought to the brink of smacking. I have sworn. I have had to walk away to prevent myself doing something I will later regret. Do I feel bad and beat myself up? Of course I do. But what matters most is how you put it right.

You know what you did wrong and will undoubtedly spend time with your dd tomorrow making amends. Be kind to yourself - hearing dd say that about her birth parents will have been tough to hear for you.

I'm well aware of the challenges of raising adopted children - my nephews are adopted. You're doing your absolute best in often very trying circumstances. Give yourself a break. Tomorrow is another day.

I am going to spend time with DD today, showing her how much I love her, going to bake cakes together too.

@Gatehouse77

We all screw it up at times and need to forgive ourselves for being human. Everything you’ve said sounds like someone who will do their best to not repeat it and actively look for alternative ways should it arise again.

Nothing wrong in apologising to our children and acknowledging the mistakes we make - after all, it’s what we teach them to do when they screw up!

It’s difficult right now because, understandably, emotions are heightened but try and step back and see the bigger picture of how you parent. It’s not lost on one screw up.

I am going to do my best not to allow it to happen again. That's why I apologized, I felt I had to.

@planesick

I am an adoptive mum. Give yourself a break. Not only is your relationship new, but lockdown has put added pressure on everyone, both adult and child. Tomorrow is a new day. Well done for going back and reconnecting. It's really important that reconnecting is done asap after a fallout because of the shame aspect. For the not listening (and the challenge given by eye contact)...we "killed" our little one with kindness! Can you leave the cat alone please? Thank you for listening, I saw that you really heard what I said. Can you come.here and put your shoes on? Wow! I saw that you did as I asked the first time I asked, that's amazing! We did this for every little thing! It redirected her behaviour from the negative to the positive. Remember that negative attention is still attention, so try to make it as positive as possible. Start with the things you know she will achieve quickly. The "I want my mum" is her verbalising her distress of the moment by saying something that was huge for her. Try not to react because she will learn quickly that this phrase is a trigger for you. I am not saying it is a trigger...just be careful. Praise anything that she does well, ignore (within reason that which isn't so great)... Be kind to yourself. I bet you feel judged by everyone, watched by all and feel you have to prove that you are a good mum. This will pass, you are your worst critic! Good luck…sorry for the essay

That's why I went up to her last night and didn't wait until this morning. I might try that, I'm always kind to her anything. I will be careful incase it becomes a trigger. I praise everything positive from her.

It's done now and you didn't do anything majorly wrong imo but I would have said something to her more like "look the car doesn't like it when you do that. Can you see her face looks scared when you do that?". I have a son who's now 7 who is exactly the same about having to do things one more time when asked not to. I'm not sure why it is but I think it's just he doesn't like to he told what to do basically. His younger brother will listen alot more. I've lost it with him many times because he's absolutely pushed me to the limit ! We are only human. Things have improved though as he's got older and he has become more reasonable. Remaining calm and stating the facts helps alot in these situations. So you could have said "please leave the cat alone she doesn't like that", if she carries on you move the cat away and your dd says " I didn't want you to do.that", say "the get doesn't like you playing with her like that can you see her face is scared or sad". Saying I love you but didn't like the behaviour even I think is a bit confusing for them at that age if they are not very in tune with others feelings.

Don’t beat yourself up, I doubt many parents can say they never shout at their kids. It sounds like she is a bit manipulative, you are doing a wonderful thing be kind to yourself.

@Spinakker

It's done now and you didn't do anything majorly wrong imo but I would have said something to her more like "look the car doesn't like it when you do that. Can you see her face looks scared when you do that?". I have a son who's now 7 who is exactly the same about having to do things one more time when asked not to. I'm not sure why it is but I think it's just he doesn't like to he told what to do basically. His younger brother will listen alot more. I've lost it with him many times because he's absolutely pushed me to the limit ! We are only human. Things have improved though as he's got older and he has become more reasonable. Remaining calm and stating the facts helps alot in these situations. So you could have said "please leave the cat alone she doesn't like that", if she carries on you move the cat away and your dd says " I didn't want you to do.that", say "the get doesn't like you playing with her like that can you see her face is scared or sad". Saying I love you but didn't like the behaviour even I think is a bit confusing for them at that age if they are not very in tune with others feelings.

That's how I should have dealt with it and how I will next time.

@Pixxie7

Don’t beat yourself up, I doubt many parents can say they never shout at their kids. It sounds like she is a bit manipulative, you are doing a wonderful thing be kind to yourself.

I wouldn't say she's manipulative, just a bit stubborn/ defiant but its probably from her trauma so I can't blame DD too much.

[quote dobbyssoc]@Daisydolittleboo I think as long as you explain to her it's her behaviour you don't like at times not her then it's fine.
We all lose our rags especially when they look at you and do something you've told them not to - normally very slowly!
Just give her a kiss and cuddle, explain what you meant and move forward [/quote]
I have explained to her that it was her behaviour and shown that I love her.