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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this was school admission fraud ?

304 replies

Survivor12345 · 22/07/2020 14:26

We put our house on the market in 2015, knowing that a key selling point was its proximity (walking distance) to the most sought-after primary school in our area, and the fact that the secondary school in our town was the #1 choice for our part of the county (Hertfordshire).

Within 48 hours we had four full asking price offers, all from families with school-age children, as expected.

To avoid a chain, we chose the buyers who claimed to be 'living in rented accommodation' in another town whose two children, then aged approx. 7 and 5, attended the primary school near us.

We did wonder how come they had got in there, but didn't question it too much, concluding that it was not our business. They gushed over our house and claimed that they would be moving straight in when we moved out, were delighted to be sure of the secondary school places etc. etc.

They turned out to have lied about being 'in rented accommodation'; in fact, they owned the house they lived in in the other town, but 'Didn't like the schools there, they are too rough'.

Whatever, after discovering that they'd lied we were halfway through the sales process so had little choice but to continue with them, even though they ducked and dived trying to claim nonsense after their survey etc. We gave them one week to complete after their extortion attempts which they complied with, as they clearly didn't want to lose the house.

So we moved out on completion - and they have never moved into the place !

OK I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS, NEVERTHELESS, LYING IS LYING IS FRAUD AS I UNDERSTAND IT WHEN IT COMES TO SCHOOL PLACES ?

Since buying our former house, they have continued to live in their house in the other town and send their children to the town's two highly over-subscribed schools, thus, in our view, depriving two children from our town of two places at good schools near their genuine homes.

They have rented our former house out and continue to own it.

What I would like to know is, does this amount to school place application fraud?

We knew they were buying our house for its proximity to these good schools, but believed them when they said that they were going to move into it and live there.

We don't care what they do, but do believe that it's wrong to game the system like this. Our children are grown, and we're not familiar with the requirements for school applications.

AIBU to ask anyone else who has recent knowledge to tell me whether what they have done is just sharp practice, or is it downright unlawful, in which case, how do I report them?

OP posts:
otterturk · 22/07/2020 15:38

They own a house in the right area. Who gives a fig about whether they live there.

WombatChocolate · 22/07/2020 15:38

Barnet?

BigBadVoodooHat · 22/07/2020 15:39

So OP isn't going to respond to the many, many, many posts asking how it's fraud if the children were already at the school before they purchased the house they required in order to commit a school-place fraud that they'd somehow already pulled off Hmm

Oh well. Frothy frothy frothy ...

Original poster
Survivor12345 · 22/07/2020 15:40

Wombatchocolate they didn't leave it empty, the let it out.

OP posts:
Original poster
Survivor12345 · 22/07/2020 15:41

BigBadVoodooHat I fully expected responses from people like you who care only about your own interests rather than abiding by rules designed to bring about fair allocation.

OP posts:
Thislittlelady · 22/07/2020 15:41

Op this post may be quite identifying.... I guess lots of people do this. But they could be stopping the kids that are in the house getting places? Report it to the education authority. Don’t go asking others about it. At the end of the day they do NOT LIVE IN THE CATCHMENT AREA and rules are rules so....

WombatChocolate · 22/07/2020 15:42

OP, you are very self-righteous and determined to report.....but not to clarify why you think this is fraud.
You cannot really expect people on MN to support you making your report to the council without more information to support the fact that you think fraud has happened. You really haven't given us any basis to decide one way or the other, just said YOU think it has.

In the end, if you are pretty sure fraud has happened, of course you should report it. However, if you can't give us info to make a reasonable judgement ourselves, you're best just doing it rather than askimg what we all think about it.

CeibaTree · 22/07/2020 15:43

I don't understand how they have committed fraud if their children were already at the school before buying your old property? So what exactly are you reporting them for?

CoffeePleb · 22/07/2020 15:43

But their children were already at your local school, so what difference does it make that they bought your house Confused I am genuinely confused..

User50000999788887876655 · 22/07/2020 15:44

@Survivor12345

I agree that we need to get a life User50000999788887876655 , however fraud is fraud and two deserving children who live in that town are now going to lose places at the school there to two whose parents have lied.

We are not OK with that, even if you are.

I see gutter on you’re going to report them. Don’t do that you don’t know their circumstances at all. Why is this your business?

Yeah I’m fine with what they’ve done, I don’t know them I don’t know their story, neither do you. Stop being so judgemental.

Littlegreymen · 22/07/2020 15:45

@BigBadVoodooHat

So OP isn't going to respond to the many, many, many posts asking how it's fraud if the children were already at the school before they purchased the house they required in order to commit a school-place fraud that they'd somehow already pulled off Hmm

Oh well. Frothy frothy frothy ...

They were not at the school. They attended a local primary and purchased a house to ensure a place in the senior school.
wildthingsinthenight · 22/07/2020 15:45

Survivor12345

Are you not going to answer our questions then? No?
What is the point of this thread??

MolyHolyGuacamole · 22/07/2020 15:45

@BigBadVoodooHat

This makes no sense at all Confused

To clarify, yes, their children were already in the primary school right near our former home, somehow, despite their living (where they still do) in another town.

So they didn't need to buy your house in order to get a place at the school, as they were already at that school.

crikeycrumbsblimey interestingly, the father asked me for a copy of the Council Tax bill when they made the offer. Suspicious ?

No, because the children were already at the school, so what use would a copy of a Council tax bill in someone else's name be in getting a place at a school they already had a place at?

two deserving children who live in that town are now going to lose places at the school there to two whose parents have lied.

But their children are already at the school, so how are two other children 'now' going to lose places at the school Confused

All valid questions, so set why OP isn't answering them and similar questions?

OP, HOW could buying your house affect school places if the children were ALREADY in the school?

Tlollj · 22/07/2020 15:46

I think the fraud is relating to secondary school places too.
If the children were already at primary school ( one wonders how) then the buying of ops house is irrelevant. But in doing so they are now in the catchment for the secondary, this is fraud, they do not live in the catchment area.

MolyHolyGuacamole · 22/07/2020 15:48

@Tlollj

I think the fraud is relating to secondary school places too. If the children were already at primary school ( one wonders how) then the buying of ops house is irrelevant. But in doing so they are now in the catchment for the secondary, this is fraud, they do not live in the catchment area.
Right this makes sense. OP could have made that clearer in the first post.
Pikachubaby · 22/07/2020 15:48

How is it fraud though?

They got the kids into an excellent school
They The bought a house in the catch me of this school
They rented out this house

Which part of this constitutes fraud?

BigBadVoodooHat · 22/07/2020 15:48

BigBadVoodooHat I fully expected responses from people like you who care only about your own interests rather than abiding by rules designed to bring about fair allocation.

Oh, stop being silly and goady. You have utterly no idea about 'my own interests' or how rule abiding I am.

I'm an absolute stickler for the rules. Ram-rod rigid rule abider, me. Grin

But you haven't explained how it's fraud if their children were already at the school. And I'm guessing the reason for that is because you can't explain it, because you didn't think that wee detail of your story out clearly enough.

That, and the fact that the real purpose of this thread isn't anything to do with school fraud whatsoever, is it? Wink

Thislittlelady · 22/07/2020 15:48

They may have previously ‘fabricated’ their living arrangements in order to get the placements and then jumped in the chance to actually own a property in the catchment area. Their kids may actually have never Been eligible to be there... we don’t and won’t know. But they are not doing the right thing. I doubt reporting it would remove the kids as they have been there for however long, but it’s still not right. Two eligible kids MAY have missed placements due to this couples possible fibbing and Untruths.....

Original poster
Survivor12345 · 22/07/2020 15:49

Tlollj yes, you have it exactly. They clearly lied to get them into the primary school, then bought our house to get them into the secondary while letting the house out and living in (what they described as) a poorer area.

I'm amazed at the level of defence of their lowlife behaviour, but you live and learn.

Just sad that kids are the victims of this level of selfishness.

OP posts:
CeibaTree · 22/07/2020 15:49

@Tlollj

I think the fraud is relating to secondary school places too. If the children were already at primary school ( one wonders how) then the buying of ops house is irrelevant. But in doing so they are now in the catchment for the secondary, this is fraud, they do not live in the catchment area.
But how does the OP know that they are not planning to move into that house by the time their children need to apply to secondary school? This is such a weird thread. No fraud has been committed regarding the house purchase, they can't be reported for possible potential fraud in the future. This is completely bonkers.
Humberbear · 22/07/2020 15:50

It is not fraud. The children already attended the school. Once the children are already attending a school they are free to move anywhere.
The most likely reason they did it was to achieve a high rent because people would be desperate to get their children into the school. A house near a good school achieve a higher rent. Plenty of people tent a house for a short time to get into a good school
Whoever rents the house would be able to get their children into the school so they are not depriving any child.
The people who bought the house haven't done anything wrong.

The people haven't done anything wrong.

WombatChocolate · 22/07/2020 15:51

Is this really about school admissions fraud or about having a row on MN?
Lots of people are askimg very reasonable questions in order to understand what has happened and make a sensible judgement. Most people do not advocate fraud but Op seems to be taking the view that lots of people are condoning fraud. They are not. They are pointing out that picking up on this 5 years after selling is odd....which it is. Plus, without more information to show fraud has happened, readers here don't have evidence it has happened, just Op's criticism as of themselves.

Letting out the property doesn't necessarily constitute fraud. It could be possible for the buyers to have bought the property, livid in it for a while to meet admissions criteria and then moved away and let it out. It can be possible to meet the letter of the law whilst not being entirely instep with the spirit of the law. Herts need to follow the letter of the law and good admissions policies pin this down very tightly.

Op, are you interested in telling us about this case or is there something going on behind the scenes we don't know about where people in real life have deterred you from making a complaint and you're looking to take it out on someone and have chosen the posters on MN? It feels like you want to say people are corrupt and support fraud and wil complain.

In the end, if you think there is currently fraud or fraud in a sensible timeframe which action can be taken on, then simply get on and report it. You do t need anyone on here to tell you to and probably should have done it long ago. It seems to me that you are involved somehow, but because none of know the detail,mew cannot understand the case, nor why you are so cross with other posters on here.

BigBadVoodooHat · 22/07/2020 15:51

They were not at the school. They attended a local primary and purchased a house to ensure a place in the senior school.

Where does the OP say that they purchased the house to ensure a place in the senior school?

Boom45 · 22/07/2020 15:52

How does buying your house AFTER their children have a place in the school constitute fraud? That's where I'm confused.

myrtleWilson · 22/07/2020 15:53

But how does the OP know that they are not planning to move into that house by the time their children need to apply to secondary school? This is such a weird thread. No fraud has been committed regarding the house purchase, they can't be reported for possible potential fraud in the future. This is completely bonkers

In the OP she suggests the children in 2015 were about 7 and 5. So her argument/belief is that for the secondary school application for the older child they used her old house which presumably is a more 'secure' address in terms of admission criteria. The older child is now at secondary. Then the younger child who will be applying now-ish will have a sibling connection and distance.