To think this was school admission fraud ?

[Survivor12345]

We put our house on the market in 2015, knowing that a key selling point was its proximity (walking distance) to the most sought-after primary school in our area, and the fact that the secondary school in our town was the #1 choice for our part of the county (Hertfordshire).

Within 48 hours we had four full asking price offers, all from families with school-age children, as expected.

To avoid a chain, we chose the buyers who claimed to be 'living in rented accommodation' in another town whose two children, then aged approx. 7 and 5, attended the primary school near us.

We did wonder how come they had got in there, but didn't question it too much, concluding that it was not our business. They gushed over our house and claimed that they would be moving straight in when we moved out, were delighted to be sure of the secondary school places etc. etc.

They turned out to have lied about being 'in rented accommodation'; in fact, they owned the house they lived in in the other town, but 'Didn't like the schools there, they are too rough'.

Whatever, after discovering that they'd lied we were halfway through the sales process so had little choice but to continue with them, even though they ducked and dived trying to claim nonsense after their survey etc. We gave them one week to complete after their extortion attempts which they complied with, as they clearly didn't want to lose the house.

So we moved out on completion - and they have never moved into the place !

OK I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS, NEVERTHELESS, LYING IS LYING IS FRAUD AS I UNDERSTAND IT WHEN IT COMES TO SCHOOL PLACES ?

Since buying our former house, they have continued to live in their house in the other town and send their children to the town's two highly over-subscribed schools, thus, in our view, depriving two children from our town of two places at good schools near their genuine homes.

They have rented our former house out and continue to own it.

What I would like to know is, does this amount to school place application fraud?

We knew they were buying our house for its proximity to these good schools, but believed them when they said that they were going to move into it and live there.

We don't care what they do, but do believe that it's wrong to game the system like this. Our children are grown, and we're not familiar with the requirements for school applications.

AIBU to ask anyone else who has recent knowledge to tell me whether what they have done is just sharp practice, or is it downright unlawful, in which case, how do I report them?

I get a bit confused by the whole house and catchment area thing. We are buying a house which has two excellent schools (one outstanding one good) within 0.3 of a mile. However, they are oversubscribed so I know it's very unlikely we'll get in. It just seems a big gamble to buy a house purely on catchment, it doesn't guarantee entry? We certainly didn't base our decision to move there because of it.

It was five years ago? This can’t be serious. Why would you be all riled up five years later?

The school admissions code states that if a place is gained through fraud then the amount of time the child has been at the school should also be considered if the place is withdrawn. If a place at secondary school has been obtained by fraud for this family then it can really only be withdrawn within a few weeks of starting in Year 7. So unless the eitherr child is due to start in this September it is too late for that place to be removed now

@User50000999788887876655

They own the house, paid at the price you set. You need to get a life and stop worrying about what others do.

That.

If you had sold in the last few months, fair enough. But five years! Too late.

And if the house has been rented, then if local kids live there, then they will be eligible for the School catchment.

I don't understand OP. How is it fraud when the children are already at the school? You don't need to maintain your address on the catchment area once a child is at the school. You can move wherever you like.

Can you clarify?

@Survivor12345

Thanks to all for your replies.

To clarify, yes, their children were already in the primary school right near our former home, somehow, despite their living (where they still do) in another town.

crikeycrumbsblimey interestingly, the father asked me for a copy of the Council Tax bill when they made the offer. Suspicious ?

No, that’s normal as part of a property sale.

@MiniMum97

I don't understand OP. How is it fraud when the children are already at the school? You don't need to maintain your address on the catchment area once a child is at the school. You can move wherever you like.

Can you clarify?

because the fraud (potential) is in relation to secondary applications

Op, I don’t understand, on another thread you say you’re slt in a school, how come you need to ask on here if it’s fraud?

That's what people do. Buy houses to get into the catchment area. It's not fraud. ...

Are you thinking secondary school places?

And please make sure you know you're facts, if you are going to report. Imagine how much stress this is going to cause a family if they are innocent.

And as others have said unlike to affect any existing school places.

It was five years ago?

Oh. In that case they've probably finished their GCSEs and moved on by now!

What outcome are you hoping for if you do report?
Do you want the poor kids to be frogmarched out of the school?

I’m surprised that several posters seem to think you just need to own a house in catchment, not actually live in it. In all the councils I’ve lived in, the address you must apply from is the one you live at. Not a house you own, but rent out & don’t live in.

Five years ago? 😂 what do you actually think will happen?

ok, you weren't clear about the fact that your particular concern was regarding secondary applications. If they were already at the school when you sold the house then that would obviously had had no bearing on their ability to get in as they were already there
If they are now using that house as an excuse to get into a certain secondary school then that could indeed be fradulent but how do you know this??
And it all happened five years ago so why do you care? is there more to this story?

your post has convinced me to follow other posters' advice and report. It is entirely wrong that people work a system and, as you say, there will always be other children who lose out because of that

Like other parents on this thread my children are adopted and therefore were able to attend schools not in the catchment area. Two of them had special needs and did attend a wonderful school 20 miles away with a huge waiting list. I am now a long term foster carer and one child continues to attend a school they lived in before coming to us. The other child was also given priority to go to a school that can meet his needs even although that is over 30 miles away. None of my neighbours, other parents at the school, and certainly not the people we purchased our house from, would know any of our personal history and certainly not know the children''s medical history (some disabilities are invisible). Would you like to report us too because on the face of it we could be seen a defrauding the system too? We aren't but it would look like we are. Do you know the personal history of this family, can you be assured that neither of their children are adopted or have been in care? And also remember that for some children who have been, or are in care, for their protection, it is of vital importance that their history is not revealed to others, like, for instance, the people you buy a house from. Do you know their personal medical history?

I know others may say well if they did not act fraudulently they have nothing to worry about. But I do know that false allegations are a dreadful thing to go through. So I would make certain you know the facts before resorting to reporting.

Maybe they bought it knowing they could rent it out for a good price, for those willing to pay higher rent to get their child into that school?

A+B= A

Apparently

I would notify the school and just let them know of your concern and they can deal with it. You don’t have to ‘report’ as though there’s an issue. Just advise the school so they have the info.

I am being unreasonable, but can people read ? The children were in primary locally they wanted the house to get them into the secondary catchment area. End of rants.

And yes it's fraud if they don't live there.

They gushed over our house and claimed that they would be moving straight in when we moved out, were delighted to be sure of the secondary school places etc. etc

Yes, it was fraud. Our LEA demands it be the primary address and will look into any other addresses owned to ensure you don't live there. Grandparents' addresses and rented addresses will also be investigated.

@TempestHayes

Yes, it was fraud. Our LEA demands it be the primary address and will look into any other addresses owned to ensure you don't live there. Grandparents' addresses and rented addresses will also be investigated.

But the OP has no evidence they even used that address to apply, if they applied.

They clearly lied to get them into the primary school,

How can you possibly know this?!?