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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think putting baby down awake is an unrealistic goal

102 replies

FrenchEnglish · 21/07/2020 04:15

My baby is 4 months old and has never been one to fall asleep on her own; she needs to be fed to sleep.
She was sleeping through but the last few weeks she's been waking multiple times and won't settle unless she's breastfed back to sleep. The only consistent advice I seem to see is that I should be putting her down still ever so slightly awake. But if she is not in a deep sleep, she will not stay asleep for any period of time at all. As soon as I put her down, she cries and she doesn't stop until I pick her back up again. I posted on here a few weeks ago that we managed to get her to sleep holding her hands and stroking her cheek but she was crying and I was crucified for sleep training too young... Fine, but what do I actually do? People still just keep saying put her down when she's still awake! But she cries! So how do I do that and not leave her to cry for any period of time?! I'm genuinely asking! How can I get her to accept being put down?

OP posts:
Willow4987 · 21/07/2020 08:15

DS1 had to be fed to sleep or rocked to sleep and ever so gently lowered into his cot otherwise we had to restart the WHOLE routine again. He now goes to sleep on his own and sleeps through (he’s almost 2)

DS2 will sometimes (in the day), just fall asleep in his cot Shock I have done nothing differently. It’s like finding a mythical unicorn - I genuinely didn’t believe it was possible but it is for him

But they’re all so different! Just do what you need to do to get them to sleep

Also the not staying asleep thing...sounds like the 4 month regression. It will pass

Mycatscollar · 21/07/2020 08:17

It’s a really good idea if you can do it.

I know the prevailing view on here is that it’s wrong: I don’t see how putting a sleepy baby in a basket or cot to self settle with you in the room is at all but honestly I have seen friends with their lives in ruins from non sleeping children.

SallyWD · 21/07/2020 08:17

Do what's best for you and your baby. I was lucky, I put both mine down awake from birth and they seemed to accept it. Sometimes they grizzled and I jiggled the Moses basket around or stroked them saying "Shhh" and that's all that was needed. I know that all babies are different though.

sweetkitty · 21/07/2020 08:17

Do you know my DC are now 16-10 (I have 4) all 4 were breastfed to sleep. I was where you were 16 years ago (on MN stressing I couldn’t put this baby down awake, she wouldn’t sleep in her own bed etc etc) I remember the desperation.

In the end I gave up and just went with the flow breastfed and coslept. With the next one I didn’t even try she was breastfed to sleep from day one. It’s how I got the most sleep and how I survived 4 under 6. What I’m trying to say is do what’s right for you as a family nevermind what people or MILs say you should be doing. It’s such a small part of their lives and it goes by so so quickly.

SallyWD · 21/07/2020 08:19

I forgot to say - what worked for me was White noise and swaddling until 6 months. Neither of them settled if they weren't swaddled. I think it recreates the tight feeling of being in the womb. I also put the top I'd been wearing that day next to them so they could smell me.

BlusteryShowers · 21/07/2020 08:30

It's particular to the baby so those with babies who are hard to put down think it's a myth and those with babies who can do it, think others just aren't trying hard enough.

I've had one of each and did very little differently myself- they are just different babies.

clarepetal · 21/07/2020 08:35

If breastfeeding to sleep works for you, do it. If you have people saying the wonderful "you'll make a rod for your own back" they can fuck off.
It's you that's staying g awake with a screaming baby. Follow your instincts and do what works for you Flowers Congrats on your baby too

Genua · 21/07/2020 08:41

“ I know the prevailing view on here is that it’s wrong: I don’t see how putting a sleepy baby in a basket or cot to self settle with you in the room is at all but honestly I have seen friends with their lives in ruins from non sleeping children.”

You misunderstand. No one thinks that putting a “sleepy baby in a basket” is wrong. It’s just that many of us have experienced babies that won’t be put down “sleepy but awake”. I’m afraid yours is exactly the sort of post that demonstrates that those who have babies that will do this simply think that others are doing it wrong or not trying hard enough. People with non sleeping children didn’t get there by choice, even if you secretly think they did.

Genua · 21/07/2020 08:44

My second baby has a “sleepy but awake” state in which I can put her down (with white noise) and she will drift off about 50% of the time. Didn’t have that state at all (he was asleep or awake) and would scream awake if put down when asleep.

Asuitablecat · 21/07/2020 08:46

Go with what works. Some babies aren't very good at following the rules.

Take it from someone who had wildly different babies, tried everything and got miserable about it, but now only have hazy memories of sleep deprivation and 2 kids who sleep normally. It might feel like it, but it won't be forever. flashbacks to commando crawling out of Dd bedroom when she finally dropped off

Shayisgreat · 21/07/2020 09:00

I couldn't put DS down awake until he was about 5 or 6 months old. Up until then I fed him to sleep at night and for naps. Then I changed the routine slightly so fed him, gave his bath and then put him in the cot for sleep. For the first while I had to stay with him so he could settle but then he slowly got used to it and by 10 months could get himself to sleep without me most nights.

For sleep 4 months was the worst period so if feeding\rocking to sleep works now keep doing it!

Mycatscollar · 21/07/2020 09:17

What do you think would happen after six hours if you put a sleepy baby in a cot genua?

Sharkerr · 21/07/2020 09:22

It was only possible for us once we sleep trained at six months using ferber method. Absolutely revolutionary. Changed our lives. I’m no longer on antidepressants. Everyone including baby is much happier. He’s finally getting adequate sleep. Just been fantastic! Don’t give up on sleep training if it didn’t work before. There’s an ace group on fb called ‘respectful sleep resining’ you might find useful.

These threads are riddled with nonsense about how sleep training is damaging to baby’s long term emotional health... fine to hold that as an opinion, but it’s very much not backed up by the evidence. No peer-reviewed research has reported detrimental effects from sleep training. There’s plenty of info out there to educate yourselves. Here’s some for starters:

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/4/643

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2016/05/21/peds.2015-1486

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/122/3/e621

pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/111/3/e203

Here's a look at the Middlemiss study, which is usually cited by people against sleep training or extinction (CIO): expectingscience.com/2016/04/21/the-middlemiss-study-tells-us-nothing-about-sleep-training-cry-it-out-or-infant-stress/

And here are the authors of some of the studies on child abuse and neglect say that anti-sleep-training people are mis-citing their work: ideas.time.com/2012/05/10/the-science-behind-dr-sears-does-it-stand-up/

A little information on the "cortisol" fear.

"In terms of their effects, the difference between short-term and chronic stress is one not of degree, but of kind. Short-term stress enhances memory; chronic stress impairs it. Short-term stress boosts the immune system; chronic stress weakens it.
So where does that leave us? A little stress, even in infancy, is fine, if not beneficial, but too much for too long is very, very bad.

Do we know exactly where sleep training fits in this spectrum? Just how much stress does a baby experience during cry-it-out?

The short answer is that we don’t know for certain. Everything we do know, however, suggests that this amount of stress, in the context of a warm, loving family, is just fine.

I believe that sleep training is not only not harmful, it is beneficial. Successful sleep training can decrease depression and chronic stress in the parents, and this benefits parents and their babies. Unlike sleep training, having a depressed mother during early childhood has been shown, repeatedly, to be linked with worse long-term outcomes for children."

expectingscience.com/2016/04/12/critics-of-cry-it-out-fundamentally-misunderstand-how-stress-affects-the-brain/

" To measure the effects on the babies, the researchers did something interesting: they measured the level of cortisol, a stress hormone, in the babies’ saliva. They also asked the mothers about their levels of stress. Twelve months later, they looked for any emotional or behavioral problems in the babies, and they also did testing to see how attached the babies were to their mothers.

Here’s what they found. The babies in the graduated extinction group and the bedtime fading group both fell asleep faster and had less stress than the control group — and not only that, their mothers were less stressed than the control group mothers. Of the three groups, the extinction group babies were less likely to wake up again during the night. And when it came to emotional or behavioral problems, or attachment, all three groups were the same.

This means that it’s okay to let your baby cry a little. It’s not only okay, it may lead to more sleep all around. Which makes everyone happier."

www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-study-says-okay-let-babies-cry-night-201605319774

FloreanFortescue · 21/07/2020 09:32

Mine were about 15 months when I stopped breastfeeding. It's the most natural thing in the world. What isn't natural, is sticking a dummy in their mouth to fall asleep - it's literally a fake you. So why wouldn't it be okay to let them fall sleep on you? Or a bottle?

Daft!

Mycatscollar · 21/07/2020 09:38

Its okay, but it means the baby struggles to sleep without you. For obvious reasons that has implications.

Personally I feel it is better when babies can get used to sleeping away from their mothers - I don’t mean in a cold dark room alone, I mean when mum or dad is there, but not actually on them. It means the baby gets used to self settling which is a useful skill.

Lily2020 · 21/07/2020 09:40

I had a very easy baby the 1st time round she literally loved laying in her cot & would just drift off on her own. I'm now pregnant again & am sure I won't be so lucky twice! I intend on cuddling this baby as much as they want as it goes SO fast!! Just enjoy it & do what you think is right, you know best 😊

SVRT19674 · 21/07/2020 09:42

I always put mine down awake, and she just went to sleep. When I took her to nursery and pointed this out they later said they didnt believe me, she just settled on her own.

maxdash · 21/07/2020 11:04

DC1 not a chance, screamed when not held. My mother didn't believe me, so I showed her - screamed until he stopped breathing, terrified her, she had never seen anything like it.

DC2 very happy to be fed, winded, changed and popped in her bed to wonder at the world until she fell asleep.

2 very different children from birth. I did nothing different. Don't worry about it.

youhave4substitutes · 21/07/2020 11:55

It's not an "unrealistic goal" but all babies are different.

Mine were happy just to be put down and they went to sleep. I was bloody lucky!

LouiseTrees · 21/07/2020 12:05

@FrenchEnglish

My baby is 4 months old and has never been one to fall asleep on her own; she needs to be fed to sleep. She was sleeping through but the last few weeks she's been waking multiple times and won't settle unless she's breastfed back to sleep. The only consistent advice I seem to see is that I should be putting her down still ever so slightly awake. But if she is not in a deep sleep, she will not stay asleep for any period of time at all. As soon as I put her down, she cries and she doesn't stop until I pick her back up again. I posted on here a few weeks ago that we managed to get her to sleep holding her hands and stroking her cheek but she was crying and I was crucified for sleep training too young... Fine, but what do I actually do? People still just keep saying put her down when she's still awake! But she cries! So how do I do that and not leave her to cry for any period of time?! I'm genuinely asking! How can I get her to accept being put down?
Feed her to sleep. She will eventually go down awake but tired but probably not yet.
Appletoffee · 21/07/2020 12:07

It's basically a recipe for sleep deprivation and possible insanity.

This is so true. When I had DC3, my well meaning DM suggested that I follow the ‘she who must not be named on Mumsnet’ method. DM had a friend with a daughter who had the book and swore it worked wonderfully and her baby was very settled and in a perfectly predictable routine. DM suggested I give this method a try.

I just listened to my DM, but kept doing the ‘wrong’ things with DC3 (co-slept, fed to sleep Grin). I just didn’t believe there was an such an easy solution (as DC2 had been the mythical unicorn sleeper).

A week later DM mentioned her friend’s daughter had been admitted to a psych hospital with ‘maternal exhaustion’ .... I wasn’t surprised and felt quite vindicated...

Disclaimer: I was also admitted to a psych hospital more than once after I had DC1 and DC3 (and I still have ongoing MH issues to manage).

For my own MH I knew I had to lower my expectations / standards with my DC3’s sleep.

Delbelleber · 21/07/2020 12:08

I would just keep feeding to sleep until she's old enough for controlled crying. That's my plan anyway.

Genua · 21/07/2020 12:56

“ What do you think would happen after six hours if you put a sleepy baby in a cot genua?”

Can you explain this scenario further because I don’t really understand what you’re getting at

Sh05 · 21/07/2020 13:11

Whatever works for you is the way to go!
You'll get different advice and opinions and criticism from all sorts of people but if feeding to sleep works then that's what you should do.
My dd who is 4 fed to sleep until 2 then as. Soon as I stopped breastfeeding she started just asking for a handhold then fall asleep.
Youngest dd who is 10 months used to drop off on her own anywhere but now she can pull herself up she has to be fed to sleep otherwise she gets up in the cot and bounces around

Justtryingtobehelpful · 21/07/2020 13:26

Buy Wonder Weeks book and get the app. It'll explain why LO gets clingy at certain times and needs mummy really badly, like you're finding now.
Give baby a few months and they'll be more settled. Agree with everyone to their face then do what you need to when on your own.
Sounds like baby needs you right now.