To ask if this might be financial abuse

[Feelingconfused2020]

Firstly I am aware that some people are suffering far more than me. I am just starting to get a bit frustrated with the situation I am in and want to know whether I am overreacting...

DH and I share all our money but have our own savings accounts. I earn a lot less than him and we have what I consider to be a fair arrangement about who pays for what, he pays a lot more. We don't have lots of disposable income so DH is understandably concerned we don't overspend. My concern is that he insists on knowing all my passwords and logins for all my accounts and he intermittently checks them. He will text me and ask me if there's a transaction he doesn't recognise. He says it's because he's checking it's right but I feel checked up on and claustrophobic about it. I am responsible for all purchases for the family (clothes/food/ household items) and I feel that he doesn't really get how much things cost and is constantly moaning about my spending.

The reason for me posting today is because I checked my savings account last night and changed the password. I wrote the new password down and filed it away. Earlier today I got a text from the bank with a verification code which was the type you get when trying to log in. Shortly after DH rang me (in my opinion because he realised he had been foiled) and asked me for the code saying he was just checking the balance. I asked why and he said he was just checking accounts. I feel uneasy, he obviously rooted through my filing and found the password. Was he checking up on me? He knew I had been sorting money last night online.

On the one hand DH has always told me the truth and hasn't lied about this so I'm clearly overreacting but I just want some freedom to spend (even if it's more than I should) without feeling like I have to explain myself later and I had changed to password just to psychologically keep that account private but now he's got the password and if I change it again he will know and think I am hiding something and I'm not, I just want privacy.

@icecreamsummer20 thanks. I have to say you might be right. I feel like I need to talk to someone about this and work it out. I feel very lost. It's hard to explain because he isn't doing anything that's obviously abusive but he is making me feel crappy and I don't want to feel like that anymore. I have told him how I feel and nothing changes, or it changes for a short period and then he reverts back.

The other night after a nasty argument because I felt he was angry and aggressive with me and the children I sent him a link with Info about control in a relationship. He has never apologised and never mentioned the link and I can't help but feel that's odd. If he felt it was totally inappropriate surely he would want to talk to me about it and defend himself. Equally if he felt I was right and he'd gone too far then he would.apologise?

@icecreamsummer20 I've just messaged someone to receive counselling. I need to work this out with someone who doesn't know us I think.

This is not financial abuse as by the sounds of it he’s not taking your money or stopping you from spending it. This is controlling and still should not be happening. I would definitely talk to him about this and how it’s making you feel. I’m going through financial abuse atm. My husband took all my money away from me and made me suffer. This also affected our 2 children which he clearly didn’t give a shit about.

@love213 that's awful. I hope he is your ex H now?

[quote Feelingconfused2020]@swearymary100 everything I've read about.coercive control and abuse suggests that there more to it. I don't feel loved, that's definitely true, but is that honestly abuse?

He had a perfectly normal childhood and is a nice, well educated man. I don't see WHY he would do this deliberately. Why would he make me feel like this? I honestly think it's just a controlling nature and he needs to have a word with himself. I am confused though because I felt so loved to begin with and now I don't feel loved at all. There's a thread at the moment about a woman saying her husband calls her the most beautiful woman in the world and loads of other women saying their DH does the same. It really upset me because my DH used to say things like that. He doesn't anymore. He doesn't say anything nice to me.[/quote]
"He doesn't say anything nice to me."

Why? You are in all likelihood a loving wife who has sacrificed her career progression to care for your children. You are keeping a tight reign on finances. You are trying to show him you are financially responsible.

In response you have described a man who is controlling over finances, tells you you are parenting incorrectly, tells you to clear up mess when you've been busy, doesn't say anything nice to you & you feel miserable about it.

It's really tough & you are obviously trying so hard to give a fair & balanced picture of him.

I just think it's easy to have your self-worth slowly eroded living in an environment like that.
it's death by a thousand cuts.

Just to give you something to think about.
I'm a social worker & what you describe is a husband that is acting like a an authoritarian parent, which is low warmth, high conflict, high criticism & putative styles of discipline.
These are anxiety-provoking behaviours (that sinking feeling when you have to confront him, or you & your children 'shushing' when you hear him coming.) you describe the thought of challenging his behaviours as daunting (I am para-phrasing).
How do your children behave around him?

What you describe is not a balanced, kind, supportive marriage based on equal rights, responsibilities & privileges...or perhaps I am overstating things?

Keep posting OP, as I say there are very lovely women on here who can help you work through it until you feel clearer about things (better than I can!)

I used to challenge his behaviours. I usually don't bother now. it's hard to explain but he doesn't listen anyway and it takes energy and effort I don't really have.

I don't think he fits every aspect of an "authoritarian" parent. He is affectionate and loving with the kids (not really with me anymore) and he would never smack. However this:

Authoritarian parents don't trust their children to make good choices. While parents with this style have high expectations and strict rules, they also do not give their children much freedom to demonstrate that they can display good behavior and make good choices. Rather than letting their kids make decisions on their own and face the natural consequences for those choices, authoritarian parents hover over their kids in order to ensure that they don't make mistakes which I find with a quick Google. Is exactly what he is like with me, his wife, and the kids . He micro manages. I have told him he is better off walking away and giving the children time but he stands over them while they s
Do something and of course this creates tension. He hovers to make sure I have done whatever he asked me to do.he won't let me manage my own money incase I make a mistake.

I used.to.really.hope that we'd resolve things and be in love again like we used to.

Yes, I finally left him 3 years ago and it’s the best thing I ever did.

@Love213 good for you.

He sounds too controlling and emotionally nasty, and it will get worse. I’d think about making long term plans to leave, or start pushing back like changing all passwords and not giving them to him.

It sounds pretty miserable for you and the DC. I'm glad you are going to find a counsellor for you.

It seems like you're really unhappy
He has no right to look through your bank account like this. Seems to me like you should take some steps to reassert your independence and think about leaving him

Change your password again OP, he is bang out of order

He's very controlling in all kinds of ways. The fact that your children feel they have to be quiet around him at bedtime is a huge red flag. Do you really want to be in this marriage, or has he ground you down so far that you don't know any different? Because none of this is acceptable behaviour from him. Start off by changing your password again and not letting him have access to your accounts. His reaction should tell you what you need to do next.

I am so sorry to read this. You sound like a smart and kind woman who deserves so much more. There was a long-running post some time back from a woman who was experiencing something similar. Many of us MNetters followed her journey from gradual realisation of how unjust her situation was to a new life. I think you have a lot to think about OP and I wish you nothing but the best.

Get back into full time work and build on your career

This is terrible and you shouldn’t live like this, you need to talk to him

On the flip side, I notice you say money is tight, but also state you’d like to spend as you like and more than you should. I’d wonder if this is something that’s built up because you’ve previously did this or he knows you would and could cause financial issues.

It’s not ok but you need to look at the root, cause. If you’d said money is tight, I’m careful and would never over spend and cause us issues because of it, it would be different, but you didn’t, you said you’d like to spend as you please even over spend.

He is worried and money is tight. We are in our overdrafts by the end of most months and have debts (although we are paying them off gradually they aren't increasing) the thing is that I am a 36 year old adult and if I treat myself to something I feel this guilt that I know I am gonna have to tell him and he is gonna be cross and its wearing me down
Frankly, it sounds like it might be a good thing he is checking as things could otherwise get much worse.

People gave very different spending habits and I'm quite surprise as the rubbish some of my friends buy yet then say they struggle at the end of the month.

The thing is, they don't consider stuff they buy rubbish whereas I do. Toys for the kids they only play with once, clothes when they have a full wardrobe but somehow feel they should treat themselves with more. Boxes of creams and make up, stuff for the kitchen that remain in cupboards.

Its up to people how they spend their money, but sometimes they tell me their husbands are controlling about their spending from their joint account and I don't tell them that if I was their husband, I'd be quite annoyed too.

So it really depends on what you spend the money on.

Controlling and financially abusive. It's about trust which is usually at the bottom of abuse.

He needs to trust you to make the right choices. Stick to you secret passwords and if he reacts badly, it will tell you more about him than you know now.

Do you know his passwords?

This will escalate if you don't nip it in the bud now. He'll either 1. Start controlling you via money or 2. No abuse, but the constant checking balances & money anxiety will become obsessive/compulsive & be just as damaging to your relationship as abuse.

You need to analyse & observe his behaviour to decide which direction this is heading & seek help before it becomes destructive.

Do you know he is overdrawn ie independently see the bank statements, have his passwords like he has yours? It could be him saying it but not necessarily be true so he projects the financial insecurity on to you but he is not subject to the same constraints.

If it was just about money then as previous posters have said he could be trying to keep everyone on the straight and narrow. But it’s about where you shop and noise at bed time and cleaning and all sorts of crap. So it’s much more likely to be about control than stopping debt building up.

Counselling sounds a good idea - quite a lot to think about

I check both my own bank account, my husbands and our joint accounts. I am not checking up on him, but just keeping an eye on all our accounts for budgeting purposes. If he wants to do the same to my account then that's fine by me. However, neither of us would interrogate each other about our spending.

I am a 36 year old adult and if I treat myself to something I feel this guilt that I know I am gonna have to tell him and he is gonna be cross and its wearing me down

The thing is you’re in debt and can’t afford to treat yourself. He’s clearly worried and doesn’t trust you not to spend on treats and to be fair your posts are all about how you want to and he won’t let you.

This isn’t the right way to go about it, you should be able to control yourself but it does sound like if he didn’t check op you would be spending money you don’t have.

On the other side op it could be looked at that it is abusive to him that he needs to do this or you will get you both into more debt, so he is forced to check. Which is likely his view.

None of this is acceptable from either of you. You need to be grown ups and live within your means, not you trying to spend on treating yourself and him constantly checking or getting pissed off when you do.

He's going about this the wrong way. However you are in debt and over spending every month. You don't seem to think that's a problem but he does.

I read this a while ago and didn't comment at the time but your situation has really played on my mind since. I had an ex who was quite controlling. I didn't really fully understand it at the time but in retrospect I do think it was abusive. It is very very hard to set or maintain boundaries with somebody who has these controlling tendencies.

How are you doing now?