Do many people think that ADHD is not real?

[Ilovecranberries]

Was having remote drinks with a friend and his wife yesterday. She's a secondary school teacher in a quite "rough" school (not in the UK). I was quite surprised when, discussing something quite abstract about how different people think and react differently, she had said quite breezily that the majority of teachers she knows "don't believe" in the existence of ADHD.
Incidentally, one of my children is currently being assessed for it, but it is not news that I had shared socially outside of my immediate family. I wasn't offended, but I wonder if it is actually a widespread view behind the closed doors?

Couldn't have said that better myself Bertie Botts, Ross Greenes wisdom is always a breath of fresh air.

Well put BertieBotts. I never find “naughty” a useful description. It’s not specific enough apart from anything else

I don't disagree @BertieBotts, but I do think it depends on how you're defining 'naughty'. Pushing boundaries, being silly at inappropriate times, actively deciding to do something they know isn't allowed etc come under my personal definition of naughty, and virtually all dc do them at some point, nt or otherwise. And yet I'd also argue they are a completely normal, necessary part of development for the vast majority. Imo it's a very natural and healthy part of growing up.

I think the problem is when people refuse to see the difference between eg the child that is actively testing the boundaries, the child that genuinely hasn't been raised to understand boundaries, and the child with adhd that might understand boundaries but at that particular moment can't control their actions anymore than they can control their reaction to gravity. And even in the case of normal, general naughtiness, doing further harm by making the child feel they are bad, rather than a good child that's simply done something naughty as all dc do at some point. Even more harmful when the child wasn't choosing to behave that way in the first place.

@MrsZola

Adhd is not definitely not part of the Autistic Spectrum it maybe a co morbidity but it is definitely separate!!!

DS has a diagnosis of ADHD with Autistic Traits and every professional I have spoken with regarding DS has referred to ADHD as being on the Autistic Spectrum... paediatricians, occupational therapists, senco, etc

I have a NT child and a non-NT child. I can see clearly the differences in their behaviour. My non-NT child doesn't push the boundsries, she religiously sticks to he boundsries she can't cope with not sticking to the boundaries. All her behaviours are entirely impulse led when heightened and she is completely controlled by her emotions.

My NT son looks to me for a reaction. He laughs in my face going haha when doing something he knows he shouldn't. When you see them side by side the difference is as clear as day.

ADHD is not on the autistic spectrum.

@impeccabledave I think you've misunderstood.
They are referred to as under an umbrella of conditions but ASD is one condition and ADHD is another. You can have either or both. ASD has specific diagnostic criteria which are different to those of ADHD.
The "spectrum" means that in ASD, all those who have it have e.g. social communication problems. For some, that means they are nonverbal. For others, they struggle with metaphor, or body language etc.
Not everyone who has ADHD has such difficulties (though it's common). And there are other criteria needed for an ASD diagnosis.

(My DS who has ADHD also looks at me for a reaction. Sometimes he's aggressive because he's impulsive when he doesn't get what he wants. Sometimes he hides or runs away or is aggressive because the world is too noisy. And sometimes he just wants to work out the screen time password so he can play on the iPad for longer, or to wind his sister up because it's fun).

@drspouse thanks for clearing that up - relatively new diagnosis so still learning!

I think it confuses things when professionals often refer to the “spectrum” when discussing ADHD as symptoms often “overlap” with ASD - I think perhaps they may be doing this for ease of conversation and understanding

I used to think it was a made up thing and excuse for poor parenting. Brought back down to earth with a bump when my son got his diagnosis age 7 (although issues seen well before then) and now other people get to judge me instead. It's horrendous tbh and I find managing him so hard, even with medication. It's relentless.

It is a very real condition. Unfortunately there are a small number of children’s parents seeking a diagnosis that isn’t there.

We had a mother getting very aggressive with us the HV and the paediatrician for implying her child’s issues were down to parenting. She couldn’t understand why her child was equally agressive.

"Spectrum" is just a word for something that varies. You could have a spectrum of different leaves or anything really.

My 14 yo daughter has a diagnosis of ADHD (inattentive type), she takes ritalin she is also diagnosed with ASD. She is absolutely not a badly behaved student, she has never been in trouble at school she is a good student. She definitely struggles and she gets upset and tearful at school because she wants to do well but finds it very difficult to stay focused. No one has ever suggested that we need to parent better, the issues DD has are recognised and she gets support (most of the time), she has an amazing imagination she is well liked by her teachers. She struggles with friendships and finds online socialising much easier but that is more about being autistic.

We didn't seek out ADHD as a diagnosis, but when the paediatrician said she had it we read up and saw the parallels. We were against medication but when we saw DD managing school so much better with it we changed our view.

I find these threads about ADHD so educational and useful, especially ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble's and BertieBotts's posts up there about what is naughty? I'm learning all the time.

Also, I should've said - most people think its the hyperactive kid running around, unable to sit still is what adhd is all about. It really isn't, its so much complex than this, the lack of emotional regulation so even small things are a catastrophe, the lack of executive function which means a few simple of instructions to try and get out of the house turn into a huge performance /battle. These things amongst others make their lives so hard, often finding it hard to make/keep friends which result in them being socially isolated and lower their self esteem even more. And to top it all off some truly awful provision throughout the NHS which doesn't act quickly or vigoursly enough to give any real level of support. So yes it is a real thing, please be kind to those who you know have it, whether diagnosed or not.

The lack of self esteem is a big issue as well . It's heartbreaking to hear a child saying they can't do x, they are stupid, why are they so bad etc. Add in a streak of perfectionism (even if not in all areas) and it makes for very unhappy, miserable children. It's not all sunshine and rainbows .

Or the need for reassurance/reminders/input ,especially when they have enough awareness to realise they're supposed to be independent or that other children don't need as much. Even worse when they get shut down.

the lack of emotional regulation so even small things are a catastrophe, This can often be exacerbated by classmates who deliberately push their buttons for a reaction, the distraction it causes or purely for shits and giggles. Then the parents moan their little angel got a consequence and a serious telling off because x did a,b,c that was so much worse or that x is so disruptive for the rest of the class.

Of course, all children do things which are naughty at times.

But I was responding to LastTrainEast's post a couple of pages back where she said:

"I can't help noticing that there are no naughty children any more as they are all suffering from some condition or other."

And so I am not talking about occasional naughty/bad behaviour but about the idea that there are children who are "just naughty", I believe this is outdated, it's also a really damaging view of those kids, who were generally in the past written off for life - and it's good that we now understand that children who persistently misbehave are likely struggling - whether that's because of some kind of special needs, whether it's because they aren't getting clear guidance or whether they are experiencing something traumatic such as bullying or abuse at home.

And yes it can sometimes be fixed with clearer guidance or more stable parenting, but basically everyone on this thread with experience of CAMHS has actually said this is generally the first thing they want you to try - but IME if you have got to the point of contacting CAMHS you have probably read a parenting book or two, and tried out various techniques with not much of a result.

But also - neurotypical kids can cope with a massive amount of flexibility in parenting and will generally come out alright. It takes some quite seriously, shockingly bad parenting to make a neurotypical child behave persistently badly as a response (and in that case they are often so affected by that parenting that they actually DO have some kind of condition directly caused by it - attachment disorder for example, or complex PSTD) - most children do absolutely fine, even with inconsistent parents, not very nice parents, slightly absent/neglectful parents, and so on. They would probably do even better with good parenting. But children who struggle in the first place need a very specific and intense kind of parenting and it's likely most mainstream/ordinary kinds of approaches aren't going to do them very much good at all.

@doingmeheadin check out rejection sensitivity dysphoria. Essentially people with ADHD find the constant struggle with criticism and judgement unbearable. Everything they do wrong they are acutely aware of and are waiting for the inevitable comment about it. For kids trying so desperately hard to be normal it can be catastrophic.

So it's not so much struggling with emotions, but having a lot more of them. Because RSD hits like a freight train out of nowhere. And then dies down leaving a kid who over reacted.

Therapy is zero use because it's essentially a hijacking of the nervous system. Not something you hear much about here because the uk is behind the times. I think it was Dr Russel Barkley that first talked about it in rejection to this.

In relation to this I mean! Bloody Apple auto correct!

Will have a look, thanks x

I should add it's tied in with a constant sense of shame. No kid wants this dx. Reading some of the comments here I could fucking slap some of these people for the ignorant crap they are spouting without a thought for how it affects people.

And when you confront them with logic they refuse to acknowledge it, get involved in petty squabbles and vanish when they realise what a fuckwit they have made of themselves.

This is not a condition you want to have, that you want your kid to have or that's easy to get help for.

To the utter moron that implied people are trotting off to private psychs to get a diagnosis because they want one - no that's not it. They are going private because they are treated like utter shit in the nhs and just can not stand the humiliation and longer.

Why put yourself through that just to get shit treatment if you have money? Then you can see a consultant from the Maudsley without having to battle your way through the 'educators' and get drugs that work instead of whatever the nhs thinks it wants to pay for.

My mother doesn't believe in it. DD is being assessed for autism. I am also very likely to be autistic. My mother believes such things are caused by demonic possession. And can be cured by prayer. Seriously. She feels similarly about disability & homosexuality.

I'm evidently a big disappointment to her, being as I'm disabled & refuse to go her her church of bigots.

It takes some quite seriously, shockingly bad parenting to make a neurotypical child behave persistently badly as a response

I've only seen this happen once and it was very extreme, as well as absolutely heartbreaking. Pretty average child when in nursery, some slight issues as he moved through the years, some cheekyness, some swearing but a really lovely and sweet child. Then one year it started escalating,massively and quickly. Big issues at some, SS involvement, police and child old enough to understand where it was all going and why. The child was eventually removed, but at the height of it all they couldn't even be in the classroom anymore. Too angry, too heartbroken, too aggressive, running off etc.

It was fucking brutal and heartbreaking for us to witness,can't even imagine how it was for that 10 yo to live through it.

In my experience "bad behaviour" is what presents when a child's mental health has been neglected at school (not at home). There are several comments on this thread accusing parents of not proving the right atmosphere at home. But if you read up in the SEND communities (e.g. special needs jungle) it is the schools and the LAs who are failing these kids.