Do many people think that ADHD is not real?

[Ilovecranberries]

Was having remote drinks with a friend and his wife yesterday. She's a secondary school teacher in a quite "rough" school (not in the UK). I was quite surprised when, discussing something quite abstract about how different people think and react differently, she had said quite breezily that the majority of teachers she knows "don't believe" in the existence of ADHD.
Incidentally, one of my children is currently being assessed for it, but it is not news that I had shared socially outside of my immediate family. I wasn't offended, but I wonder if it is actually a widespread view behind the closed doors?

@EricLove123 have you reported the HCP to the relevant body?

I used to think this but I didn’t know anything about it. I now think I may have it after many years of counselling to try to be normal...I now accept that I am normal for me
I will prob seek a diagnosis. After DD was born I was told I had PND which I don’t think I did (wasn’t depressed at all). What I know now about ADHD in females fits so well with my life.

Ed psychs, SENCOs and teachers can't diagnose ADHD, anymore than they can diagnose asthma or diabetes or any other medical condition. They also shouldn't be dismissis a diagnosis given by a qualified doctor, to do so is deeply unprofessional, and completely outside of their remit and qualifications.

A diagnosis has to come from a doctor, usually a paediatrician or psychiatrist. Its the same with ASD and dyspraxia.

If anyone has any concerns about an incorrect diagnosis, either private or NHS, they should raise concerns with the organisation the doctor works for, or their professional body, just as they would for any other medical misdiagnosis

There were several @drspouse.

Often, the private Dr wasn't at fault as they weren't presented with all the information plus the person had learned why they hadn't been diagnosed so made sure to present differently so it came down to a 'difference of opinion'. And people are entitled to seek (and pay for) a second opinion. Problem being they'd been assessed by the NHS as

I did report one but I later found out he was suspended by the GMC and the NHS (did NHS and private work) and he later went to prison anyway.

So if I suspect my dc has adhd should I go to the GP rather than the school?
(I mean I could do both, but which is the priority?)

My youngest has a multitude of additional needs, his school have been useless, in the final report it was mentioned at least 3 times....... "with adult support" to complete subjects but not specific mention of his additional needs. very sneaky. I have highlighted his report and will be taking it to his private dyslexia assessment that is expensive, because no one else would help him without money being waved in their face thats the of SEN provision today.

if I suspect my dc has adhd should I go to the GP rather than the school?
It depends on your area. In some areas the referral is made by school and in others it's made by the GP. Ask both (and hopefully one will know).

I did report one but I later found out he was suspended by the GMC and the NHS (did NHS and private work) and he later went to prison anyway.

Sad that a medical professional would come to that. I don't think there's any evidence that professionals involved in ADHD diagnosis are more likely to be criminals than others, is there? If you compared them to others that handle controlled substances (e.g. GPs, drug misuse service doctors, anaesthetists) as I can imagine that's a big temptation to malpractice for those who have a chaotic life, or addictions, anyway.

@Cacacoisfarraige that is seriously impressive! Out of all those books which 2 would you recommend the most?

@Goingdownto we eventually got into the CAMHS pathway which led us to dds diagnosis by seeing the school nurse. This was after seeing our GP 3 times, 3 rejections for the Paed referral. We were able to self refer to the school nurse online. I brought DD with me, they had a chat and my DD explained perfectly how difficult life for her was. It took a year of seeing a psychologist at CAMHS before we got the diagnosis, but it changed our lives.
In the meantime DH and I went on 2 parenting courses, had family support worker, my plans at school etc.

I've got my uncles school reports here from the late 40s and 50s. He clearly had adhd as he really appeared to be a little sod. He was hyper, always climbing the walls,distracting the class and school work was erratic. He was from a good middle class family and he was the despair of my grandparents but he was very clever.

It's always been around. Even my gran was a day dreamer, I've been diagnosed with adhd, my son has adhd and autism and my daughter does too.

So whoever has said no one in the 40s or 50s had it then they are talking out thier arses because they did, they just hid it or were thrashed. I hid and repressed my own behaviour from.my parents as much as I could resulting in self harm and severe depression but I couldnt stop the lack of focus and poor school work.
It's the bane if my life

ADHD may be real with real sufferers - I'm not qualified to have an opinion, but I can't help noticing that there are no naughty children any more as they are all suffering from some condition or other.

Is it possible that in some cases we're avoiding dealing with behavioural issues that could be handled by parents/teachers (with a bit of support) by just giving it a fancy title and packing them off for someone else to sort out?

Hiding neglect behind what passes for concern and kindness and muddying the waters for those with a genuine condition.

I gather it's hard to get any help these days as services are overloaded. Does that seem reasonable?

Pupils with SEND are more likely to be excluded than those without.
So where is the links between a diagnosis meaning a child is no longer considered naughty?
DS3 has had a total of 3 days FTE, both he already had ASD dx and 1 he had an EHCP in place.

And he's absolutely been reprimanded, I'd actually say at times more severely than his NT peers.

Not an unusual situation in the circles I frequent

@LastTrainEast

ADHD may be real with real sufferers - I'm not qualified to have an opinion, but I can't help noticing that there are no naughty children any more as they are all suffering from some condition or other.

Is it possible that in some cases we're avoiding dealing with behavioural issues that could be handled by parents/teachers (with a bit of support) by just giving it a fancy title and packing them off for someone else to sort out?

Hiding neglect behind what passes for concern and kindness and muddying the waters for those with a genuine condition.

I gather it's hard to get any help these days as services are overloaded. Does that seem reasonable?

That's not true at all. At my son's school for example there were effectively two pathways you could go on: SEN or behavioural. There was a whole department to help kids with behavioural issues.

And CAMHS also refer parents to parenting courses if they think it's appropriate.

@LastTrainEast

ADHD may be real with real sufferers - I'm not qualified to have an opinion, but I can't help noticing that there are no naughty children any more as they are all suffering from some condition or other.

Is it possible that in some cases we're avoiding dealing with behavioural issues that could be handled by parents/teachers (with a bit of support) by just giving it a fancy title and packing them off for someone else to sort out?

Hiding neglect behind what passes for concern and kindness and muddying the waters for those with a genuine condition.

I gather it's hard to get any help these days as services are overloaded. Does that seem reasonable?

That's not true at all. At my son's school for example there were effectively two pathways you could go on: SEN or behavioural. There was a whole department to help kids with behavioural issues.

And CAMHS also refer parents to parenting courses if they think it's appropriate.

@drspouse

I don't think anyone suggested anyone involved in diagnosing ADHD is more likely to be a criminal did they?

I know I didn't so not sure why you're asking that?

You asked a question and I answered.

ADHD may be real with real sufferers - I'm not qualified to have an opinion, but I can't help noticing that there are no naughty children any more as they are all suffering from some condition or other.

Some kids with ADHD are naughty, some are not, the two are not mutually exclusive. Naughtiness is not actually a criteria for an ADHD diagnosis so this is a bit of a red herring. Many kids with ADHD find it hard to concentrate and can also present with hyperactivity and find it hard to sit still. In a classroom environment, these two things feature heavily so it can sometimes appear that a kid with ADHD is not behaving correctly. In actual fact they are acutely aware of what they should be doing but can't manage to do it, however hard they try. You have to remember that asking someone with ADHD to 'stop wriggling' or to 'just concentrate' is like telling a person with a visual impairment to just see, or a person with depression to just pull themselves together.

I can't help noticing that there are no naughty children any more as they are all suffering from some condition or other.

This is incorrect. Schools or parents may use the term "behavioural problems" rather than naughty but that in itself isn't a diagnosis or a condition and shouldn't be confused for one.

Is it possible that in some cases we're avoiding dealing with behavioural issues that could be handled by parents/teachers (with a bit of support) by just giving it a fancy title and packing them off for someone else to sort out?

No.

ADHD, ASD, PDA, ODD, etc aren't fancy titles. They're neurodevelopmental conditions with marked differences in brain development when compared to neurotypical brains. Partly why the assessment process takes so long, aside from waiting lists and cuts to services, is because the professionals doing the assessment need to see a consistent level of difficulty or difference across more than one setting.

Schools or parents may use the term "behavioural problems" rather than naughty but that in itself isn't a diagnosis or a condition and shouldn't be confused for one

My point here ^ I don't mean ADHD presents as 'naughtiness' for all children, I meant it as 'naughty' children aren't automatically given a diagnosis of a condition simply so we don't have to label them as naughty.

@EricLove123 well diagnosing "for pay" would certainly be a matter for the GMC but the example you gave was of someone who was in breach of their regulations and also a criminal; that was the only one you reported.

Of course kids are still "naughty " . They kick off sometimes,they're cheeky, they have a tantrum, they're rude etc.

Children with SEN can be naughty too, the issue is you need to separate the SEN issues and needs from typical behaviour.

So Jimmy quietly crawling under the table when anxious or overwhelmed isn't naughty.

Alexa fiddling with her pens or rocking her chair isn't naughty.

James refusing to look at you no matter how many times you ask isn't rude.

Sarah repeating your words back at you or taking a long time to answer isn't cheeky or ignoring you.

Matthew wandering around the class while still putting his hand up or going into a long diatribe when it's his go isn't naughty.

Lisa rocking ,covering her ears or removing herself from the room isn't her having a tantrum.

Sam needing input and direction after every sentence isn't needy or stupid.

What are you reading that I didn't say Drspouse?

I didn't say he was the ONLY one I reported. I said that often it came down to a 'difference of opinion' and a private Dr not being given all the information. That's what came out of reporting concerns.

And that I did report one who had been suspended anyway so that wasn't investigated. It was pretty low down on the list of concerns considering he was sentenced to over 3 years in prison.

Sorry if it wasn't clear.

@drspouse

Oh, and no Drs are 'handling' controlled drugs. Pharmacists do that. But Drs dealing with ADHD prescribe controlled drugs, daily far more than GPs and other Psychiatrists and indeed, in the list of criminal offences this particular Psychiatrist went to prison for, one was prescribing himself controlled drugs under a fake name that are stimulants prescribed for ADHD.

Which would have potentially come to the attention of the authorities earlier if he wasn't routinely prescribing controlled drugs. As every other Dr working with ADHD does...

Caca LOVE your bookshelf!

Smart But Scattered has been an amazing read. I now need to un-overwhelm myself on it and work out where to start

My only disappointment is that it claims to include advice about what to do when you have the same difficulties as your child and then it actually doesn't at all - there is a fairly pointless chapter with a couple of anecdotes and no actual advice except to "do the exercises with your child".

@WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo

I'll apologise in advance if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, especially as your dd has different challenges to me. But I can very much empathise with the impulsive behaviour with cows. I grew up a pony mad child, rurally with horses at home, I'm sure you don't need any explanations about the main outlet for my impulsive behaviour!

Explanations about danger and practicality never meant anything to me in the moment, still don't if I'm completely honest. Eg I could agree logically that I wasn't experienced enough to jump large hedges and might hurt myself, but as soon as I was on the pony and impulse took over reason went through the door. However understanding beforehand that my inexperience could also harm the pony changed my perspective. Instead of hedges being something I considered fun but impractical, a view quickly lost in the moment, large hedges became something that could hurt the pony, and therefore not something I wanted to do. (Naturally my own impulsive solution was to jump them on a large experienced horse where my inexperience didn't risk their injury )

I'm wondering if you can maybe explain it from the cows perspective, you can't prevent the impulse from a general logic pov, but if you can change the underlying desire for a pet cow because the cow wouldn't like it, it's possible the impulse won't occur.

Again, I apologise if that's either something you've tried or wouldn't be appropriate for her, I just thought it was worth mentioning because it's the main reason I reached double figures without breaking my neck.

@juneisbustingout wow, I'm impressed. You've met everyone with adhd and are therefore able to offer your amazing insights. Then again, it's fairly clear you're one of the many that ignore the fact we're all individuals that happen to share a dx, rather than a joint personality.

I've not fully caught up yet, but it's a shame we can't find some labels for certain nt people to differentiate between them all. If some had an official dx of dickhead I'd find it a lot easier to make reasonable adjustments for their lack of critical thinking.

@PutYourBackIntoit I will get that book, the title is the exact description of DD, who got an inattentive ADD diagnosis earlier this year.

And just to reiterate, she wasn't naughty at all, in fact she was very well behaved. But, gradually, her teachers kept saying that she wasn't producing the work they knew she could.

It runs down the female line here: I suspect my mother had it, and I was so classically ADHD that I nearly drove her to a breakdown.

The thing is though is any child actually "just naughty" - what does that even mean? It seems to rest on a set of assumptions which are outdated, IMO.

Okay - there are some children who have no idea how to behave because they have not been given consistent boundaries. They are "naughty" if you like, as in there is no diagnosis, but only because they don't know better. Usually when children in this situation are put in a situation where there are clear rules, explanations and boundaries in place they do much better.

Are there children who know how to behave and choose not to? Or are we a bit more open, these days, to the idea that "kids do well if they can" and that every child wants to do well so if they aren't, it's because they can't, not usually because they won't.

Is it constructive to keep punishing behaviour we don't like, or look for the reasons behind it, so that the child can be supported to behave in a way which is more co-operative or less disruptive for everyone? If you punish a child who is already doing their best, they will become demotivated and/or resentful. Whereas if you support a child who is perfectly able to do what you ask, the worst that happens is... they get a bit of extra attention.