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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Do many people think that ADHD is not real?

739 replies

Ilovecranberries · 20/07/2020 16:28

Was having remote drinks with a friend and his wife yesterday. She's a secondary school teacher in a quite "rough" school (not in the UK). I was quite surprised when, discussing something quite abstract about how different people think and react differently, she had said quite breezily that the majority of teachers she knows "don't believe" in the existence of ADHD.
Incidentally, one of my children is currently being assessed for it, but it is not news that I had shared socially outside of my immediate family. I wasn't offended, but I wonder if it is actually a widespread view behind the closed doors?

OP posts:
TrainspottingWelsh · 21/07/2020 20:53

@BertieBotts in that context I completely agree. But tbh as soon as I start reading the posts that think adhd is naughty boy syndrome from those keen to share their ignorance I tend to switch off, so I read your reply fully but not the drivel that you were responding to!

The self esteem issue isn't something I see changing. We're measured against nt standards, so the things we're better at aren't considered worthy for the most part, or at least they are just accepted as something we find easy and therefore not worthy of praise. Or worst still, with things like hyper focus, or the ability to calmly juggle a million and one things in a crisis, it's used as evidence that we can conform when we want and therefore just need to make an effort the rest of the time.

I'm lucky, with hindsight I was unwittingly receiving equine therapy from the day I was born, and knew the advantages adhd gave me before I even knew I had disadvantages or even adhd. My life is entirely suited to my strengths and weaknesses, and having been dx as a child I've always had the coping strategies, rather than having to learn them after a lifetime of feeling a failure. I like my adhd and wouldn't want to get rid of it. But one of the reasons I don't tell many people is because they then use it as justification to shit on others that are struggling with adhd.

tabulahrasa · 21/07/2020 20:59

“It takes some quite seriously, shockingly bad parenting to make a neurotypical child behave persistently badly as a response”

If it wasn’t so hurtful to people it’d almost be funny that people think it’s about parenting...

Most of the parents I meet of children with ADHD and ASDs for that matter have much stricter boundaries, thought out rules and consequences and are parenting a damn sight harder than other parents.

You can’t just say you’re not allowed to do that and that’s that, lol.

And... NT children who have no rules or boundaries at all at home don’t often have issues at school, because they very quickly adapt to what’s expected of them there, their parents are fine with them doing what they want at home and no-one’s even looking to get a diagnosis.

If a child is being sent for assessment it’s because there’s an issue, someone is trying their best and failing so is looking for help - that isn’t terrible parents...

nestisflown · 21/07/2020 21:01

I wish I didn’t have it. It’s basically the knowledge that I always will have it and even though I know I can do the things I want to achieve, I simultaneously know I won’t get them done. Adhd feels like really cruel form of self sabotage to me.

I’ve never been remotely “naughty” though - that’s a massive misconception and ADHD presents differently in girls/women.

BertieBotts · 21/07/2020 21:11

Yes. I wasn't "naughty" as a child either. I was extremely eager to please and it would massively upset me if I ever got into trouble for anything. I had one teacher who took a strong dislike to me because I was daydreamy, but mostly I was popular with teachers because I was bright.

Trainspotting I should have just quoted it to begin with :)

Scatterbrainbox · 21/07/2020 22:11

@mistyrivers87

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
I'm a SENCO with an MSc in Psychology and a particular interest in the interplay between neurodiversity (ADHD, ASC etc) and mental health.

Clinical evidence exists for the association between attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), or hyperkinetic disorder (HKD), and possible structural, functional and neurotransmitte alterations in various regions of the brain in children, adolescents and adults with ADHD.

Imaging studies suggest that ADHD is typically associated with some structural abnormalities in the brain.

The following structural abnormalities have been observed in children/adolescents and adults with ADHD versus healthy controls:

Lower grey matter density
White matter abnormalities
Reduced total brain volume and volume of some brain structures
Cortical differences
Delayed cortical maturation in children/adolescents
Reduced cortical thickness in adults.
In a prospective magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) study, children and adolescents with ADHD (n=223) exhibited delays in cortical maturation versus typically developing controls (n=223).10 Delays were most prominent in prefrontal regions, which are important for control of cognitive processes, including attention and motor planning.

This is my evidence, from a range of peer reviews clinical sources that proves you are an ignorant twat. Please feel free to offer evidence to refute this and support your claim.

It also explains why meds can be a key tool in treatment, it is not a 'lazy' solution.

LolaSmiles · 21/07/2020 22:21

I think it does exist.

I also think that along with a selection of 'socially acceptable**' conditions, it's often misused and self diagnosed by people for whatever reasons.

** By that I mean you see people think nothing of making a big fuss about how DC has ADHD, they have anxiety, they're a little bit OCD for example, when really they've read online and self diagnosed in a way that you tend not to get people self diagnosing other SEN needs or mental health needs, for example you tend not to hear about someone saying they are a bit bipolar, or self diagnosing as having schizophrenia, or MLD etc.

I have an issue with self labelling and online diagnosing of SEND needs and mental health conditions.

Scatterbrainbox · 21/07/2020 22:30

@LolaSmiles

I think it does exist.

I also think that along with a selection of 'socially acceptable**' conditions, it's often misused and self diagnosed by people for whatever reasons.

** By that I mean you see people think nothing of making a big fuss about how DC has ADHD, they have anxiety, they're a little bit OCD for example, when really they've read online and self diagnosed in a way that you tend not to get people self diagnosing other SEN needs or mental health needs, for example you tend not to hear about someone saying they are a bit bipolar, or self diagnosing as having schizophrenia, or MLD etc.

I have an issue with self labelling and online diagnosing of SEND needs and mental health conditions.

You can't 'self-diagnose' for the purpose of school and SEN support though, there is a lengthy pathway ... Are you talking about SEN diagnosis in school (which the OP refers to) and support given around behaviour difficulties or is this 'self-diagnosing' something you have encountered in another context? It would not be possible to obtain any support, meds or otherwise, with a 'self-diagnosis'.
Scatterbrainbox · 21/07/2020 22:32

As in, you either get a diagnosis at the end of the pathway which will lead to an EHCP and/or being placed on the school's SEND register, or not. The is no third outcome for self diagnosis.

SinkGirl · 21/07/2020 22:32

I have an issue with self labelling and online diagnosing of SEND needs and mental health conditions.

Well perhaps take that up with a system that puts so many barriers in the way of proper assessment.

We were “lucky” that our twins ASD is so blindingly obvious and has caused such extensive delays that they were diagnosed at 2. I know plenty of other parents who’ve been told they won’t diagnose it before 5, or after 5. I know parents who are forced through absolutely ridiculous measures before their child is assessed. I know parents whose child can’t be diagnosed because they can’t rule out other issues and they are stuck in a diagnostic purgatory for years.

What are those children and their parents supposed to do in the intervening years?

Scatterbrainbox · 21/07/2020 22:35

I am baffled that people are discussing, in a subjective manner, whether or not a clinically diagnosable condition exists or not.

peonypower · 21/07/2020 22:45

I am baffled that people are discussing, in a subjective manner, whether or not a clinically diagnosable condition exists or not.

Depression used to be thought of like that. "Stop moping about, feeling sorry for yourself" etc. So I am not that surprised people doubt it.

I'm a big believer in ADHD being real, and actually being a psychiatric condition where medication can often really help. Children going from having NO friends and nobody inviting them on play dates to being able to participate in normal social life. It can be quite dramatic. Who would deny them that diagnosis and help? It would break my heart if it were my child ...and then was told it must be my bad parenting that caused it!

Vodkacranberryplease · 21/07/2020 22:45

@Scatterbrainbox OT I'm impressed with how you Remembered/have the content of a message that was deleted hours ago! I didn't even see it, it's that old!

And I'm sure you are right but I have to say all of the brain information kind of makes it sound like we are talking about massively defective brains that don't have half of the bits they need to function. So in a way I'd say to be careful of that because then it's a bit like the old 'women's brains are smaller so they must be thicker' argument trotted out many years ago.

There are measurable physical differences as you know, bits that don't light up when they should, prefrontal cortex loves not quite talking to each other. However. No one wants to feel examined. Especially someone with ADHD! Though with your username you may already know that first hand...

BertieBotts · 21/07/2020 22:50

Something which was absolutely fascinating to me - I went to a conference a couple of years ago about how to support kids with LDs. There was a talk about Neurofeedback (which ended up being a sales pitch, but anyway) and I had a go on their Neurofeedback machine thingy where you have to try and relax and when you make the right kind of brain waves which show you are relaxing, a little monk would start levitating and hovering high in the air.

I didn't say that I had ADHD, but as they were demonstrating it on me I could hear the guy discussing what was coming up on the laptop screen just behind me. He commented that I was showing low levels of Beta brainwaves which is usually associated with attention and learning disorders (but then he quickly added, could also just mean that a person is tired or relaxed!) It was pretty amazing to me that it was the first thing that came up when I hadn't actually mentioned it or said that was my reason for curiosity around it.

I found that when I listened to people's conversations and focused on the room and thought about what was happening around me or on the computer screen and wondered how it worked, the monk would plop decidedly down to the ground. When I let my mind wander the way it generally always does, it would fly right up - other people had a go after me and found it quite tricky to make the monk fly, and asked me how I managed to do it so easily. I chatted with them afterwards and they said that for ADHD they generally do the opposite - use software which encourages/trains the use of more Beta brainwaves, whereas the monk was supposed to help train people who are anxious or type A personalities to relax.

I also did concentration and memory testing as part of my medication trial (I'm in Germany and it's different here) and it was interesting to see how medication had an incredibly clear effect on that.

And the parent quiz in Smart But Scattered where you score your own executive functions (in order to see your strengths and weaknesses), up to a maximum score of 7x3 for each skill. I kept getting 8, 7, 6 with the odd 10 or 4. I thought oh, I haven't done too badly, until I read that most adults get scores of around 13-14 in most areas Blush and that a score lower than 13 constituted a weakness. I got one single score of 13, and that's the one area I would say I've heavily worked on coping skills. The rest were lower and most of them were single figures, a couple were even the minimum possible score of 3. To be honest it kind of made me feel better - to see I really do have that severe level of impairment yet here I am living some kind of a life and not completely wallowing in a pit of despair. I have wallowed in a pit of despair at times. But I am doing OK.

BertieBotts · 21/07/2020 22:51

Oh yes! First time I've seen a deleted message quoted! Very exciting :)

DancingInDespair · 21/07/2020 22:53

I've never actually met anyone who claims it doesn't exist. I have met plenty who say it's over diagnosed, though. The ones who say "it didn't exist in my day" wind me up the most. It did exist, but people just suffered and got labelled as bad instead.

BertieBotts · 21/07/2020 22:53

It was possibly the one where they reckoned it's not something you're born with :o

Er.... yes. That's exactly what it is!

CalledYouLastNightFromWaitrose · 21/07/2020 22:54

it's off ADHD topic but diet if relevant.
It was really, really hard to get DS1's anxiety recognised by the mental health services because he has a diagnosis of ASD. He's now receiving treatment. But if we'd not managed to break the loop, he wouldn't have the anxiety diagnosis. But he would still have been really struggling with anxiety which was abundantly clear to everyone. It was his ASD teacher at school that urged me to consider medication. She mentioned other families had got caught in the loop and gone private to get help and it had been transformative for their child. But I guess so long as it's not a mere parent observing the struggles then it's ok.
And FWIW I trust DS1's ASD teacher and it was totally the right call.

Scatterbrainbox · 21/07/2020 22:58

It was still showing up as the actual post until I quoted it. Possibly
I hadn't refreshed my screen from earlier in the day. Not particularly relevant to the point I made though.

We can't pretend the physical neurological differences are not there. We have to use the information that we have to best treat and enable people (like me, my siblings and children!) who have neuro differences. It would be criminal to ignore scientific research that could lead to a big improvement in the quality of life in those affected, because there are individuals who don't understand the research. I am not offended by the fact that my brain functions differently to someone who is neurotypical (I have ADHD). There are things I find harder because of it and things I am stronger at. Being ignorant of why this is, or how to develop strategies in the areas I find difficult is not going to help, is it? Ignorance is not bliss!!

I am a firm believer that neurodiversity is a difference not a deficiency, But pretending that scientific evidence, that is in front of our noses, does not exist is absurd.

It is not at all like talking about the size of the brain, it is about pinpointing the functions which are different (sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker) in those with ADHD to develop compensatory strategies.

BertieBotts · 21/07/2020 22:59

I am totally with you brainbox

Scatterbrainbox · 21/07/2020 23:00

Haha!! I have never realised that my username gave so much away Blush.

Vodkacranberryplease · 21/07/2020 23:12

@Scatterbrainbox Haha only on this thread!

Lower grey matter density
White matter abnormalities
Reduced total brain volume and volume of some brain structures

This. When I see this I just go noooo..... and put my hands over my eyes. It sounds so damning. It's like one step away from saying 'we have to take their driving licenses away cause y'know, special needs'

BertieBotts · 21/07/2020 23:23

Well, I could never pass my driving test and I'm not entirely sure I'm allowed to take it when on medication here sooo.

It is a great name. Very fitting :)

Vodkacranberryplease · 22/07/2020 00:32

Bertie if you are in the UK you absolutely are allowed to! Medication will change your driving completely! And no need to declare it.

Where's your devil-may-care adhd ness? I hope you're not one of these people faking it to get fucking speed which isn't a patch on coke and readily available the medication?

Shmurf · 22/07/2020 03:58

I have it and it's defo real. However, I only found out recently that when untreated it lowers the sufferers's life expectancy by 12 years on average (think it was 12, but defo double figures either way).

citychick · 22/07/2020 06:00

namechane30000

I agree with you.

Noone is DC's UK school would diagnose anything ( except for ASD which came up as negative). His primary school just kept saying " this isn't the school for your ds'.

We jumped thru all hoops to help him and his school. They were never satisfied.

We moved abroad and after various other tests he has ADHD. Takes a tablet every day. It's not been the game changer we had hoped but he's more easy going with one than without.

The sad thing is he current school don't think the school is the best one for him. Again.

We've jumped thru every hoops shown and more...

I feel he's been let down at every turn. ADHD is a horrible 'disorder' and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Still, at least we have a diagnosis to take back to a UK school when we need to.

For those of you unwilling to try medication, please do. It's not your child's fault they have ADHD. They need to live a life.

And yes, i've heard quite a few nasty comments from teachers working abroad who " didn't travel thousands of miles to work with those kids".
Sad