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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want to sell the family home

256 replies

Schleich · 20/07/2020 08:06

StbxDH and I have decided to separate. We have 4 kids still living at home. We are mid forties. He is full time and major breadwinner, I’m part time, much lower earner.

Our only assets are the family home (equity is about 25% of the house value for our 5 bed home) and quite a lot of pensions. No savings at all.

He wants kids 50:50, which I’m upset about but can’t really argue with - he’s a really good Dad and has a very flexible job, he spends loads of time with them now. He’s not doing it for the money - we’ve gone on the child maintenance calculator and he is offering to pay me 20% more than the amount he would pay if he was only having them one day per week. He’s offered to get it put into writing.

However, because we have no savings he is insisting we sell the family home to release equity, split the equity equally and buy a smaller home in a worse area each with the deposit plus mortgage. He says without doing this he will either have to rent (which he HATES - he bought a house as soon as he got his first proper job because he hates the idea of renting so much!), or buy a bedsit or small flat, which would be too small to have the kids stay. He says to get a rental big enough to house all the kids comfortably would be unaffordable (I’ve checked, and he’s right), or at the least would prevent him ever being able to get back on the property ladder. He also has a dog, which he loves, and most rentals don’t allow pets.

He knows that a court would likely give me more than 50% of the assets, and says that he is happy to give me whatever proportion of the pensions a mediator considers necessary to make it a fair settlement.

I really don’t want to move. On my relatively low salary I’ll be limited in how much of a house I can buy with half the equity (although he says I should be able to get a mortgage which takes maintenance into account). It’s likely the children will have to share bedrooms for the first time in their lives, and their ages/genders make this a bit difficult.

We did talk to the mortgage adviser and she said that that buying him out would be very difficult due to my earnings and the high price of the house, and would incur mortgage penalties which would wipe out 20% of the equity to switch to a mortgage company which might allow it (ours won’t take into account maintenance payments). He might be able to buy me out based on his income, but not if he is paying me maintenance - because I’d need the maintenance agreed in writing for my mortgage company to take into account but that would then impact on his borrowing ability!!

I suppose I just don’t want the children to suffer as a result of our decision to split up, and all I can see is them having to switch back and forth between two homes which are much to small for our big family.

OP posts:
Fletchings · 20/07/2020 10:06

And this whole nesting thing is bonkers. Makes it very difficult to move on.

Agree, I think it is really important to have your own place to properly move on with your life. Your children are older and probably spent more time with their friends than at home. Sort your own place.

SuperheroBirds · 20/07/2020 10:10

[quote Schleich]@Pythonesque

No, we've not spoken to the children about it, as we want a clear plan of how things will work before breaking it to them.

I think the children, if they had their way, would all choose completely different things! One of them really values privacy and may refuse to share a room. One spends loads of time with his dad and would probably want to live with him and visit me. The youngest would hate to not live with me. etc. etc. I can see them all wanting to live in different places at different times and then never seeing each other![/quote]
I think it is definitely worth talking to the children about how they would want to split their time. When my parents divorced, my mum presumed she would get me and my brother (and the house). But as I was a teenager, I was given the choice and I chose my Dad full time. This wasn’t much of a surprise to anyone, as I’ve always been a Daddy’s girl and my Dad was a brilliant Dad. My younger brother however, essentially chose to be with me, so mainly stayed with Dad but did every other weekend with Mum. This did surprise people as he had always seemed like he was close to mum, but he said he wanted to stick with me. So those sibling bonds might surprise you.

It turned out that my Dad then bought out my mum’s share of the house.

Spinnyspiney · 20/07/2020 10:12

Nesting is a relatively new thing, and not usually for the long-term so no court in the land would make you do this - bear that in mind,
I can't think of anything I'd rather do less than divorce and then still share living space with the ex - isn't one of the advantages of divorce that you DON"T have to put up with their crap anymore??

To me the solution is clear - and it's not nesting. It's that you, as the long-time main carer ( and I don't care how great he is, if he's working FT and you PT then you do look after the kids more) need to have the kids more than 50/50% to make sure you're eligible for either more child maintenance or state help.

Those saying it's not fair on the DH are ignoring the fact he earns nearly 100k while you're on less than half of that - whatever happens the kids are going to be better off at dad's if you go 50/50.

Get some proper legal advice, just a solicitor call to see what your options are financially so that when you mediate you have an idea of what you can and can't so.

RedOasis · 20/07/2020 10:13

WHY DONT YOU DO THIS...... purchase a small property which can easily accommodate one of you. When it is your turn to be with the kids you stay in the family home. When it’s not, you stay in the other property? Kids don’t need to move out, and get to spend time with both parents at home.... would this work for you both? Just an idea....

LemonTT · 20/07/2020 10:15

Fgs read the OPs posts. He isn’t asking for 50:50 split on the house or that his CMS is based on 50:50.

He is offering extra CS for the children and to give her extra equity. Based on what the OP says he will be offering c£1K per month. Bringing her income to about £47k per year if she goes ft. More with benefits.

The OPs income potential is sufficient for him to argue a clean break. There is no need for a Mesher order or spousal maintenance.

The reality check here is that they couldn’t afford a 5 bed house married in a nice area.

They have good incomes. They can start again if they accept the reality of their finances. It will be a good lesson for the children that life isn’t endless spending because you can.

Nesting is a short term solution at best. But they can’t really afford it. They have no savings and live month to month.

Needmoremummyjuice · 20/07/2020 10:16

Please Please get legal advice!! It is a wise investment and no matter how much good advice you get off friends, MN etc and how reasonable and amicable ex is you need to make yours and your children’s future financially secure and cover your backside for if things become less amicable. Me and exH had a relatively amicable and mutual decision to split however there were discussion (arguments) when emotions were raw and having a good solicitor/mediator takes the emotion out of it. FWIW your children are of an age where 50/50 may not be in their best interests even if it’s what you and ex want. My child was 18 months when we split and 60/40 works for in terms of jobs etc but we have a clause in our documented agreements that as they get older this split may change to meet their needs e.g. when going to school moving to a EoW arrangement term time with ex for DC to be settled while attending school-these sort of things were suggested by a family solicitor.

Spinnyspiney · 20/07/2020 10:16

Please don't split your children up. This is where you both need to parent and not ask them to choose, even if it means sharing a room. Dividing the kids now may seem easier but long term it will seriously affect their relationship with one another, esp. as any one at dad's place is going to be materially better off.
You might think you could make it 'fair' but it will be very difficult to maintain that.

caringcarer · 20/07/2020 10:21

I know you have been married for a long time but the first thing you must learn is to put you and children first. Go and get proper legal advice. Court starts from premis all assets shared equally but then makes adjustments. They will take your earnings and his earnings into account. All pensions into account and court will want stability for children.

I would not agree to 50-50 care of children. I would go for at least 70-30. If you got 70 you would be more likely to remain in family home.

If he is earning almost 100k he will have to pay a good wack in maintenance for children. I would be asking solicitor about continuing to live in family home until youngest child 18. Then sell house and split equity equally. If you are divorced you would be eligible for child benefit and if working WTC.

Leave him to sort out own situation. In my experience having a mediator almost always favours highest earner.

He may hate renting but so what, not your problem. You say he does a lot with kids. Are these fun things or doing their washing an ironing and seeing buttons on school cardigans? If you do all that now, will he have time to do it if he is caring for them? Even 30 per cent of care would mean him doing washing and ironing for all 4 children as well as cooking them meals. You should not be doing it all unless getting 100 per cent care.

He can sign any documents but once house is sold and he has his money he can stop paying and nothing you can do. He sounds very selfish and should be considering options for putting his children first, the court will which is why he wants to use mediator instead of solicitor. Don't agree to anything without seeing solicitor on your own and one you choose. Don't let him take control. It sounds like he is pushing for mediator and controlling situation.

I hope you find a solution OP.

RedOasis · 20/07/2020 10:21

No easy fixes here. Get legal advice. If you want a ‘clean break’ I think you’ll have to sell and accept that life is going to change. Your kids are fine ages to share rooms. They might not like it, but there are no reasons they can’t share ( you don’t have say a 6 yo ds and a 15 yo dd). You need legal advice really.

dontdisturbmenow · 20/07/2020 10:25

When you go back to FT, with the equity, would you have enough to buy something in the area?

You'd probably have a better case for more equity if you could show what extra you'd need to do so then trying to keep the house.

Going back ft asap is the best decision as this will give you more options and will make it easier to negotiate and decide what is best for each of your kids.

Billben · 20/07/2020 10:25

He wants kids 50:50, which I’m upset about but can’t really argue with

What is it that I’m not understanding here? 🤔 The kids are half his, why are you upset about him wanting them half the time? Mainly when you agree that he is a good father to them?

dontdisturbmenow · 20/07/2020 10:26

I would not agree to 50-50 care of children. I would go for at least 70-30. If you got 70 you would be more likely to remain in family home
So doing what OP wants rather than what her kids would prefer, ie. being selfish!

2020Rainbow · 20/07/2020 10:27

@Billben because she like most mums will miss her kids when she is not with them 50% of the time. I'm sure he will miss them as well.

Spinnyspiney · 20/07/2020 10:29

Do exactly what Caringcarer said! And explain to STBEXH that you will be trying to move on ASAP financially, because once the lids all leave the home you have to sell, get a new place, or buy him out, house prices go up etc. it's not ideal but I don't really see what else you can do.
Also agree that he can backout of agreements or just stop paying after everything is sold, I know several of really 'good' dads who have done this - one because he got his new gf pregnant, one because he got p'd off at his ex about something, one because his job changed and he earned less, one because he and new partner wanted to get a place together. All of them I would have said were decent dads when married but as soon as circumstances changed it was the money for their kids that stopped.
And it's REALLY hard to make people pay up - the one with the pregnant gf put his company in his mums name and dissolved another to show he had no income when the reality was he was well off.
You need to think about the long term future for your kids - til the youngest is educated and out of high school at least.

Schleich · 20/07/2020 10:29

@caringcarer

Pushing for 70:30 is what the solicitor suggested, but not because it would be best for the kids, but because it would put me in the strongest position to demand a more preferential split of assets/maximise the change of me staying in the house and him being forced to rent, and tie him more strongly into paying child maintenance. It all sounded very cynical, and like you needed to "play the system".

Due to him being full time he does currently do less than me (although definitely his fair share). If I go FT it might be the other way around because his job is far more flexible than mine.

OP posts:
Autviaminveniamautfaciam · 20/07/2020 10:31

I think your starting point is what is best for the DC too.

They are in the run up to GCSE's/ A Levels and they need stability and support. You say your DH is a great dad. My DH is a great dad and they love him to bits, but you should see the state of the place when he is off and I am at work. They send me messages at work asking what's for lunch and the dishes are still in the sink. My point is, it is all very well STBex wanting the DC, but after a couple of weeks he may find he doesn't. Also, what if he gets a new partner? I doubt she will stay very long with 4 DC under 16 to help look after.

Personally I would be telling him it was in their best interests to live with me, in that house and he can go get a flat round the corner and see them whenever he wants in return for letting you all stay there until youngest is 18.

SirVixofVixHall · 20/07/2020 10:33

You really do need to see a good solicitor. Particularly as your Dh may be reasonable and fair now, but that could swiftly change if he gets into another relationship. You need advice on what is the best thing for you.
I also agree that 50/50 might not be good for the children, given their ages and exams. A 14 year old sharing with a 10 year old could be tricky for that reason too, the older dd will need a quiet space to revise , and will be up later than the ten year old, so won’t be able to use her bedroom. If you have one family sitting room then space for work and revision could be an issue with the ages and sex of the children.
I imagine your DH is getting decent legal advice, you really need to do the same otherwise you will be the one who loses out.

Spinnyspiney · 20/07/2020 10:34

'Pushing for 70:30 is what the solicitor suggested, but not because it would be best for the kids, but because it would put me in the strongest position to demand a more preferential split of assets/maximise the change of me staying in the house and him being forced to rent, and tie him more strongly into paying child maintenance. It all sounded very cynical, and like you needed to "play the system".'

Take the legal advice - there is no 'system' to play. My DP now earns 4 x my wage as I had the kids and went PT. I have no doubt I would be on the same wage as DP now if I hadn't worked around our kids for 10 years. DP is fab, and does a lot WHEN AROUND which is way less than me because DP is working FT to support us more financially.

Take your solicitors advice - he may 'hate' renting but it's not forever, and tough choices need to be made. Presumably you didn't want a PT career before you had kids? Presumably he was on board with having 4 kids who need to be supported til adulthood?

He may even be able to buy again sooner than expected. He might meet someone. YOU might meet someone and want to move on. 50/50 is not good for kids that age IMHO.

Autviaminveniamautfaciam · 20/07/2020 10:43

Call me cynical, but you are mother of 4 DC under 16. My bet is that your job as mum is just about to get harder and his job as dad is just about to get easier. I highly doubt he is going to want to be mum/dad 50% of the time for 4DC. If he was so wonderful, I doubt you would be getting divorced.

You need to think about you and your DC and what is best for them.

ittakes2 · 20/07/2020 10:46

My friend restructured their house so the children lived on the middle floor, she lived on the top floor and her ex lived on the bottom floor.All for the sake of the kids. At one point her boyfriend moved in to the top floor with her and it all stayed amicable! They lived this way for years.

Fletchings · 20/07/2020 10:46

My bet is that your job as mum is just about to get harder and his job as dad is just about to get easier.

how is that if both have the DC 50% of the time?

Spinnyspiney · 20/07/2020 10:48

My advice, not based on my experiences as I'm not divorced, is coloured by the number of friends I now who have split up and in all but one case out of a dozen the mum has ended up much worse off, struggling to get maintenance after a while, struggling financially, a dealing with awkward ex-partners who almost all, after the initial good intentions, have ended up being difficult to deal with while still looking like 'great' dads.

the bar for blokes is so low when it comes to being a 'good parent' compared to the mums - it really is, take them on some outings and show interest, and the world things you're a star. And ALL of the dads rapidly moved on with new partners which is when the money stuff started to get tricky.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 20/07/2020 10:49

If you go for 50:50 then he would not be paying you any maintenance. So then he can buy you out?

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 20/07/2020 10:50

Ah, reread your OP and the maintenance is for show only.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 20/07/2020 10:54

Saving money on solicitor will coat you dearly in the future!