To not want to sell the family home

[Schleich]

StbxDH and I have decided to separate. We have 4 kids still living at home. We are mid forties. He is full time and major breadwinner, I’m part time, much lower earner.

Our only assets are the family home (equity is about 25% of the house value for our 5 bed home) and quite a lot of pensions. No savings at all.

He wants kids 50:50, which I’m upset about but can’t really argue with - he’s a really good Dad and has a very flexible job, he spends loads of time with them now. He’s not doing it for the money - we’ve gone on the child maintenance calculator and he is offering to pay me 20% more than the amount he would pay if he was only having them one day per week. He’s offered to get it put into writing.

However, because we have no savings he is insisting we sell the family home to release equity, split the equity equally and buy a smaller home in a worse area each with the deposit plus mortgage. He says without doing this he will either have to rent (which he HATES - he bought a house as soon as he got his first proper job because he hates the idea of renting so much!), or buy a bedsit or small flat, which would be too small to have the kids stay. He says to get a rental big enough to house all the kids comfortably would be unaffordable (I’ve checked, and he’s right), or at the least would prevent him ever being able to get back on the property ladder. He also has a dog, which he loves, and most rentals don’t allow pets.

He knows that a court would likely give me more than 50% of the assets, and says that he is happy to give me whatever proportion of the pensions a mediator considers necessary to make it a fair settlement.

I really don’t want to move. On my relatively low salary I’ll be limited in how much of a house I can buy with half the equity (although he says I should be able to get a mortgage which takes maintenance into account). It’s likely the children will have to share bedrooms for the first time in their lives, and their ages/genders make this a bit difficult.

We did talk to the mortgage adviser and she said that that buying him out would be very difficult due to my earnings and the high price of the house, and would incur mortgage penalties which would wipe out 20% of the equity to switch to a mortgage company which might allow it (ours won’t take into account maintenance payments). He might be able to buy me out based on his income, but not if he is paying me maintenance - because I’d need the maintenance agreed in writing for my mortgage company to take into account but that would then impact on his borrowing ability!!

I suppose I just don’t want the children to suffer as a result of our decision to split up, and all I can see is them having to switch back and forth between two homes which are much to small for our big family.

Surely you’ve sacrificed earnings going part time to look after children (you could even calculate how much less since you went part time) and also pension contributions? Also if the reason you have no savings and remortgaged was for his business (Were you involved with the business at all?) that failed you could claim he’s had some of his cash entitlement there? You need to get a decent lawyer. You could lose way more long term than you’d lose by getting a lawyer and paying out for initial support now.

I agree that it would make more sense to get a tiny flat locally which you take turns to live in while whoever is with the kids lives in the family home. That or sort out an annexe in your current home. It sounds as though your ex is trying to be fair with money and very keen to see his children. That makes him a lot better than most of the selfish men you read about on here. In which case, once the initial hurt has died down, you will probably start getting on well with each other, and having separate space in the same house or a nearby shared flat would work best and be so much less stressful for the children.

... and sharing bedrooms is pretty normal. It won't have a detrimental effect on them.

The kids can charge rooms with the ages you have said. It may not be ideal but I can’t think that I could do the nesting suggestion.

If it's so amicable have you had counselling to try to get your marriage working again?

I think you need to take your time because you need to face a new financial reality. The move to two households will mean both are poorer and this cannot be avoided.

I agree with the suggestion you go full time as soon as possible. This will be better for any mortgage and will enable you to save.

Sharing rooms looks like it is inevitable for your children, I know many on MN think this is is a terrible thing but you spend most of your adult live doing it without it causing any harm.

I don't agree with any suggestion that sees either of you in poorer accommodation or sharing a bedsit while the children stay where they are. For me that just ends up with a lack of stability for everyone and two adults unable to move on.

@Schleich

Quite a few people have said about me sacrificing my earning potential and that this means that I should be entitled to more.

Do you need to be able to show that, if you hadn't given up work/gone part time that you could have had more promotions in your current career and so be earning more now? Or can you just argue that you would have changed careers and earned more?

I earn (if FT) about £35k, which is "top of the line" for what I do. I would have needed to have changed careers to do better.

Your middle paragraph - how can you prove that ? You can't but where this is sorted is when the information goes down on that Form E and you get a % of those pensions for equality . Not paying for a solicitor is a false economy.

Have you asked any of your children what they think yet? From what I've heard, chances are high that the older ones are going to say no to 50/50, regardless of what agreements you make between yourselves. I'm another who thinks some version of nesting makes the most sense, perhaps until your third finishes school.

You have to take the emotion out before making decisions.

You've a mortgage that needs sorting before you can even think to get another on a flat/small house and with only 25% equity is it even doable? Mortgages are not as easy to get as they were even only a few months ago.

How much in £'s is that equity?
Be realistic, what % of financial contributions will be acceptable from him for household maintenance, bills etc to keep the house? Can you afford to live in the family home if he only pays the mortgage?

It's also not a given that he will be forced by the Courts to continue to pay it.

4 Teens yomping from house to house for 50/50 residency is quite a thing. As tech, clothes, friends become more of a thing. Plus you have 3 of them in or approaching the exam years where they need space if possible.

I think a suggestion from a pp about a mediated discussion or counselling about how you conduct this split in the best interests of the children is a good idea.

If you are not hurling crockery at each other Have you considered staying together for the kids? Old fashioned idea I know, but just for 4 years til the 2 oldest are at Uni?

@Pythonesque

No, we've not spoken to the children about it, as we want a clear plan of how things will work before breaking it to them.

I think the children, if they had their way, would all choose completely different things! One of them really values privacy and may refuse to share a room. One spends loads of time with his dad and would probably want to live with him and visit me. The youngest would hate to not live with me. etc. etc. I can see them all wanting to live in different places at different times and then never seeing each other!

If you went f/t now and your DH earns £100k in 2 years of hard saving you could give yourselves more Options.

They can’t refuse to share a room. Loads of children never had their own room. Divorce changes things for everyone. Hopefully you’ll all end up happier. But it’s not for one child, one person in a family of 6, to refuse anything. I’m sure you’re bringing them up to be thoughtful considerate people.

Sell the big property
2 separate new, smaller properties
2 children in each
The children swap over between each property ?

So the children are forcibly separated and never see two of their siblings? Ridiculous idea.

Nesting is the only sensible way forward if you want to keep the property. Nesting can work brilliantly for children, as it gives them stability. In my view it’s the ideal outcome from amicable parental separation, from a child’s point of view.

If this doesn’t work, I can’t see any way to avoid selling the house.

I urge you - Get legal advice and don't take these opening discussions, however amicable as the way it "has" to be.

He might want 50/50 for example and that might seem reasonable but there might also be a case for not doing so because it's more disruptive to the routine and it may be better for the children to have stability in one home with every other weekend and an overnight midweek stay. It's not about what he wants its whats best for the children.

You're entitled to more than you think I promise you - I was in your shoes and was gobsmacked when I realised thanks to a decent solicitor how spivved I had been by our "amicable" arrangements

You're going for shared care because he's a good dad.

But is that what is best for the children?

This isn't something to decide based on guilt or fairness to parents. Start thinking about your children's needs.

You wont be able to dictate this to older teens anyway.

You need a solicitor too. Ime 'amicable' is often 1 sided and means someone is being shafted.

@GuiltyBark I completely agree with your advice.
OP you might not need to sell at all. Just because he wants 50/50 does not mean it is fair and that you have to agree to it.

People saying that nesting is ridiculous as the adults can't move on have missed the parenting class that explains that once you have kids, your needs are often secondary to their well being. It's not forever but 4 kids all at or going into their most important schooling years need stability. It may be that the older 2 become independent straight after school and there is more flexibility to sell and buy 2 smaller places so it may only be 4ish years of inconvenience for the parents. And this is what being a parent is about. Not a lifetime of servitude but making short and medium term sacrifices for the well being of their children

I think you need to speak to a Solicitor urgently. Your DH seems to be telling you what he wants to happen! Working full time you would need to be paying for some kind of childcare for the youngest. They will be able to help you see if you have any other options to consider.Children sadly do suffer in Divorce ,its just a fact of life really .(Which is probably why some people decide to stay together for the sake of the children)not the best idea usually .Why are you separating ? Is there any way back for you do you think.

Go get proper advice from a solicitor and a barrister. Then start discussing the split with a mediator, armed with knowledge about what a court might decide.

See if you can agree on what's best for the children. Then work a plan around that, which is not significantly less than what you'd get of you went to court.

It is pointless listening to people telling you that you will be entitled to more than 50/50 . One thing I came away with from my divorce is every single case is treated individually and family law is quite elastic in how it is interpreted.
I think it likely it will be a 50/50 split and that you will have to sell the family home. It’s a difficult time and yes DC may not initially like the changes or reduced circumstances but they adapt and more so when things are amicably done as it sounds like it will be in your case

Haven't rtft so apologies if this has been suggested already. Would you consider your husband continuing to live in the house and put away the money that would have been paid on rent for a larger deposit for you both?

Op
Moving isn't the end of the world.
Honestly, put it into context. Your children will have two safe secure homes with parents who work well together.

35 k + child support + 50% access really is a good deal.

Sharing rooms isn't the end of the world. If you both have your own homes reasonably close to each other than they can nip back and forth.

I think you are potentially compromising a great deal of good will for the sake of a house.

Which is more important- being as harmonious as possible with your ex, or staying in the house?

He's being very fair, and you are not.

And, everyone saying " the kids are most important"...

Yes, but keeping a healthy relationship with your ex is by far the most important thing... FOR the kids.

And this whole nesting thing is bonkers. Makes it very difficult to move on.

OP, as PP have said, you do need to see a solicitor (again). I know they are monstrously expensive, but it is worth it. I had a free session, followed by 2 x 2-hr sessions. It cost about £900, but was money well spent (XH did the same).

I didn't want to sell our big, beautiful family home either, but it was the only way XH and I could get a 'clean break'. We shared the equity 60:40 (in my favour) and both bought small houses.

I was shocked at first as I have never lived in a small house. It's okay, though. I did wonder about 'nesting', but I needed to make sure there was a proper separation from XH for all kinds of reasons, so didn't go down that route. I know other people who have, though, and it can work. They are all people with teenagers, and the teenagers have found it ok as they have carried on their lives as normally as possible, given that they have had a massive upheaval. Whether this can work very much depends, though, on why you and your XH are separating.

My teenagers have a bedroom each at both of our houses, as we only have two (my 18 yr old has a tiny room, which has caused some complaint). If we had had more children, though, I would either have bought a slightly bigger house in a less desirable area or would have had to use the sitting room as my bedroom (would have been very, very reluctant to do that).

I did rent for six months after our house was sold, and hated every second of it, so wouldn't advise that!